US Politics



  • Blimey. .. .this is going to get some sand in some vaginas ... or penises .. or whatever you call yourself ... i get so confused.

    Actually agree with Trump (and Ben Shapiro, unsurprisingly). BS answer to this though is best. "From today I am 60 years old" ... "No, I don't care that I'm 30 years old, I am 60 and want the rights of 60, as I identify better with people who are 60".

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/devos-sessions-transgender-students-rights.html?_r=0







  • @gollum
    There are other groups that don't want this kind of transgender bathroom bullshit and a return to common sense. Can't please everyone. So tough shit.



  • @Frank said in US Politics:

    @gollum
    There are other groups that don't want this kind of transgender bathroom bullshit and a return to common sense. Can't please everyone. So tough shit.

    Out of interest, what is your issue with it? You have a person in the process of having a full sex change wants to use a toilet that they are changing to, thats an issue how? EG a person who looks like a woman, dresses as a woman, has tits, wants to use a woman toilet. But its important (like 30 days into Presidency important) this not be allowed. And also, how many cases do you think there are of this? And ultimately, who does it hurt?

    IE "Common sense" implies that the alternative is better for society than what is happening now. How so? Do you think it'll pan out better for that transitioning woman to walk into the mens?



  • Personally I wouldn't care either way. i've never understood the obsession we have with gender separated toilets. FFS they have doors you know.

    I don't think it was something that required direct legislation though. Legislate for directives and suggested solutions that fit within an agreed framework yes, but forcing schools (in particular) to act a certain way when situations and environments can be vastly different around the country was not really a great idea despite the good intentions.



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    Personally I wouldn't care either way. i've never understood the obsession we have with gender separated toilets. FFS they have doors you know.

    I don't think it was something that required direct legislation though. Legislate for directives and suggested solutions that fit within an agreed framework yes, but forcing schools (in particular) to act a certain way when situations and environments can be vastly different around the country was not really a great idea despite the good intentions.

    Yeah, it's a double question really isn't it? Not just why Trump is doing this now (and I really can't see why it's that important) but also why Obama did it in the first place.



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    Personally I wouldn't care either way. i've never understood the obsession we have with gender separated toilets. FFS they have doors you know.

    Thats the bit I REALLY struggle with, the issue was that guys transitioning would go into the womens. Its not like womens toilets have fricking urinals. There's zero exposure. Half the offices I've been in are unisex, because they are all cubicles. I've hardly ever been bummed by a dude in a dress while using the hand dryer.

    The laws were aimed at protecting the vulnerable (as good laws should), the vulnerable in this case being a very effiminate dude on his way to being chick, walking into a mens toilet.

    The stat to look at would be the number of people in that grouping beaten up in a mens toilet v the number of women raped by a tranny bursting into their toilet cubicle. I'm guessing thats one way traffic... but from a hyped fear point of view its the same as arguing your toddler is more likley to shoot you with your own handgun than ISIS is to blow up the plane you are on. Once you toss fear into the mix rationality has zero value.

    Previously laws wrere at least made leaning towards rationality, now its 100% hyped fear with zero grounding (in all areas, terrior, immigrants, LGBT rights, race). Its a vote winner. It does zero for the underlying issues or safety.

    As Frank notes "you can't please everyone". Laws should not be about "pleasing" - especially about pleasing peoples irrational fears or pandering to the stupid. How is where a tranny pisses of any interest at all to the majority? Its certainly zero threat to them. No closet gay redneck terrorfied of gays was having his rights put at risk by that law.

    It should be about solid law making that protects those in our society without implinging on the rights of others. Luckily the courts recently explained that in the case of immigration.



  • Anyone know if it is just toilets or does this also include locker rooms etc? I could see an argument against it for the latter. The thing is who really is going to police it anyway. I mean what is the transgender population roughly? Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    I understand why Trump is doing it, wants to show he is getting things done after years of stuff not getting done, It's more important to show that he is accomplishing things rather than what those particular things are exactly.



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    Its a non issue to 99.99% of the population. Its a huge issue for the TG. So the law solved a massive problem for them & had zero effect of the rest of society. Reversing it creates a huge issue to the TG & again, has zero issue re the rest. How is rthis hard? As a law it helped TG people a lot, had zero impact on everyone else.

    The 99.9 bitching about this or calling it a non issue is like people without babies bitching & being outraged at baby change facilities & demanding they be reomoved as they are a "non issue".

    Or like men saying womens health is a non issue (another one that is getting nailed at the mo)



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"



  • @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.



  • It's up to individual states to determine how they choose to handle this topic. Obama shouldn't have gotten involved, so I agree with reversing it.

    I tend to lean more towards Baron's point of view. It's seems very politicall minded how we treat people who believe they are in the wrong gender. It seems to be very quick to prescribe hormones or intervene surgically, but for things like anorexia and body dysmorphia we treat it as an illness.



  • @Kirwan said in US Politics:

    It's up to individual states to determine how they choose to handle this topic. Obama shouldn't have gotten involved, so I agree with reversing it.

    If it should even be state level. The closer to the poo the decision is made the better.

    On this specific Obama order, part of the problem is that it was terribly written. I don't see many people defending the order based on what is in it. The defences seem to be based on feelings and virtue signalling.



  • Remembering which state or county you're allowed to use your preferred shitter would need a guide book or app. Unless they all want to pay taxes to have signs installed?



  • @NTA said in US Politics:

    Remembering which state or county you're allowed to use your preferred shitter would need a guide book or app. Unless they all want to pay taxes to have signs installed?

    This is about school bathrooms



  • I still don't get it. If you are trans man but identify as a woman i would assume you would at least try to look like a woman so what is the issue about going into a womans bathroom. You might get stares depending on how far along you are but that would happen anyway. I've only been friends with two trans people both female moving to male. One was older and pretty much a blokey bloke and the other fairly new but she dressed so mannish that you wouldn't make a public guess that she was really a she. At my current job however there is a mail room person, apparently a guy becoming a woman..except he wears army boots, has long straggly white hair, is unshaven, walks like a bloke, talks like a bloke. In fact he is literately a bloke in every aspect except for a weird dress which he clearly just picked up from the local op shop. For starters the dress isn't appropriate for a corporate office but somehow he gets a pass on it. I know if he walked inti a womans lockerroom it would freak ladies out....but again there are no bathroom security guards nor should there be.



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

    Yes I am . Whoa... are you saying they are not???



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

    In my above examples I would say mail room bloke definitely mental issues. Older female to male guy definitely not and unsure on the newer female to male, only knew them for a short while pre facebook. Anyone else here know any transgender folk to give some anecdotal evidence on the mental illness angle? Being gay was classified in the DSM-IV as late as the 80's. No idea how much different this is and my sample size of 3 doesn't give a whole lot of insight.



  • Steve Bannon @ CPAC "A New Political Order is Forming



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    I still don't get it. If you are trans man but identify as a woman i would assume you would at least try to look like a woman so what is the issue about going into a womans bathroom. You might get stares depending on how far along you are but that would happen anyway. I've only been friends with two trans people both female moving to male. One was older and pretty much a blokey bloke and the other fairly new but she dressed so mannish that you wouldn't make a public guess that she was really a she.

    So they'd just get treated as if they were lesbians.



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

    In my above examples I would say mail room bloke definitely mental issues. Older female to male guy definitely not and unsure on the newer female to male, only knew them for a short while pre facebook. Anyone else here know any transgender folk to give some anecdotal evidence on the mental illness angle? Being gay was classified in the DSM-IV as late as the 80's. No idea how much different this is and my sample size of 3 doesn't give a whole lot of insight.

    that's the thing with all this stuff - it is pretty much an arbitrary line drawn by society, and that line shifts over time.

    in medical and evolutionary survival of the species type terms, being gay is a negative. obviously as far as humanity at present goes, overpopulation is an issue rather than the other way around, but a high rate of homosexuality in, say, panda or takahe might be a problem - it is inarguably a defect in the way that animals which sexually reproduce are meant to function.

    where people get all silly is in thinking that someone having the gay is a big deal - it doesn't mean they should be treated differently to anyone else, and it should not be a reason to assume there are other issues - likewise trannys. many of the other issues that these folk are likely to present are likely to be as a result of their different treatment, or fear at people's reactions - i.e. these are issues caused by other people / society.

    how many trannys are there in american schools anyway?



  • Maybe the real solution is to replace the words 'Female' and 'Male' on bathroom doors with a picture of a vag and a cock'n'balls with specific facilities to suit the two sexes.


  • Banned

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Maybe the real solution is to replace the words 'Female' and 'Male' on bathroom doors with a picture of a vag and a cock'n'balls with specific facilities to suit the two sexes.

    What about non-binary people? Or people who believe they should have a cock or a vag but haven't installed one yet? What about them Mr bigot?



  • And owls? And cats? You gender-assuming bastards!

    Aren't a toilets in France generally unisex? 🤔 Seem to remember reading that somewhere.



  • who uses stinky public toilets anyway, sheesh!



  • @NTA said in US Politics:

    And owls? And cats? You gender-assuming bastards!

    Aren't a toilets in France generally unisex? 🤔 Seem to remember reading that somewhere.

    It's my experience that Frenchmen just piss in the streets



  • @Stockcar86 said in US Politics:

    @NTA said in US Politics:

    And owls? And cats? You gender-assuming bastards!

    Aren't a toilets in France generally unisex? 🤔 Seem to remember reading that somewhere.

    It's my experience that Frenchmen just piss in the streets

    Dont be racist



  • @Stockcar86 said in US Politics:

    @NTA said in US Politics:

    And owls? And cats? You gender-assuming bastards!

    Aren't a toilets in France generally unisex? 🤔 Seem to remember reading that somewhere.

    It's my experience that Frenchmen just piss in the streets

    Or they let their dogs shit and piss there



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel ok maybe a picture of c & b and under it some instructions. 1) Look between your legs. 2) Does it look like this picture 3) if yes come in, if no look at the next door and follow instructions.


  • Banned

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel ok maybe a picture of c & b and under it some instructions. 1) Look between your legs. 2) Does it look like this picture 3) if yes come in, if no look at the next door and follow instructions.

    And what if they're blind you small-minded fascist? How about some braille?



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel ok instead of a drawing how about a dildo and a fleshlight embedded in the door with both written instructions and audio instructions triggered by touch.


  • Banned

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel ok instead of a drawing how about a dildo and a fleshlight embedded in the door with both written instructions and audio instructions triggered by touch.

    And of course you forgot the ramp. Didn't think of that did you? What a lost cause you are.



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

    Yes I am . Whoa... are you saying they are not???

    Correct. And I think you may find that your view is out of step with the psychiatric studies as well.
    I guess you would have also been lining up the shock treatment for gays and "hysterical " women?



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @Stockcar86 said in US Politics:

    @NTA said in US Politics:

    And owls? And cats? You gender-assuming bastards!

    Aren't a toilets in France generally unisex? 🤔 Seem to remember reading that somewhere.

    It's my experience that Frenchmen just piss in the streets

    Dont be racist

    The correct pronunciation is "rayschist".



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    I guess you would have also been lining up the shock treatment for gays and "hysterical " women?

    Hysterical women got vibrators, didn't they? 🤔



  • @NTA said in US Politics:

    @Crucial said in US Politics:

    I guess you would have also been lining up the shock treatment for gays and "hysterical " women?

    Hysterical women got vibrators, didn't they? 🤔

    ....and slapped around a bit. I think that was also thought of as a 'cure'



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

    Yes I am . Whoa... are you saying they are not???

    And don't start me on the blacks & the gays....



  • @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:

    @gollum said in US Politics:

    @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    Bit of a weird law in the first place, kind of a hey look I have resolved this massive non-issue!

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/transgender-bathrooms-suicide/483351/

    Further to the "its a non-issue!"

    What a load of clap trap
    Not using the bathroom they want is not causing suicides. These people have serious mental problems to even get to the point that they want to change sex. They need mental health care and supportive structures, not society giving in to their whims over bathrooms and pro nouns. Do people seriously think the suicide rate amongst these people will drop if they get to use the bathroom they want or be called a 'zwe'?
    Nope. They are unwell and need proper help to understand and cope with the way they feel.

    whoa! Are you seriously saying that people with gender identity issues are mentally ill?

    Yes I am . Whoa... are you saying they are not???

    And don't start me on the blacks & the gays....

    and the lefties...terrible, terrible mental illnesses, all of them


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