New Zealand v West Indies



  • First T/20 on the 27th!

    Something to look forward to after the Fozzie inspired dross.

    Three T/20's and two tests, followed by Pakistan touring with the same schedule

    Cricket! Yay! My favourite sport.



  • All the matches of the West Indians are in the North Island. 1 T20 Aucks and 2 at the Mount with Hamilton and Wellybops getting the tests.

    Noice!



  • Devon Conway makes the T20 side but not the test squad.



  • @Hooroo said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Devon Conway makes the T20 side but not the test squad.

    Trying to ease him in?



  • Taking the other half and boys to the Basin on the Sundee of the Windies test. Just a gentle half hour walk from hers. Nothing better than sitting on the bank enjoying the best form of the game.

    I hope the Windies make a game of it, I can just imagine them getting pissed off with all the isolation and not trying on the pitch, historically they are a team who’ve thrown their toys on previous visits here. Plus most of them are either unproven or aren’t actually very good.



  • I have never seen Conway bat but are NZ missing a trick not putting him in the test squad straight up? His domestic stats are pretty impressive.



  • @Crazy-Horse said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I have never seen Conway bat but are NZ missing a trick not putting him in the test squad straight up? His domestic stats are pretty impressive.

    Maybe.
    Personally, I think it is right decision. Team and selectorial consistency.

    Conway is also in the NZ A squad. After he plays the T20s, he will then play 2 FC games for NZ A v Windies A.

    So, he has a pathway to test selection.

    But, I'm a little biased. I like watching Will Young bat so don't want him demoted below Conway without more justification.

    Most at risk are Taylor due to age, and Nicholls due to form last 12 months, and obviously Young as the spare. Getting promoted to first spare is really neither here no there is terms of 'missing a trick'. So we're really talking about the test starting XI.

    I guess another factor is, with Jamieson's elevation. We probably won't play a spinner at home for next year or 2, injuries permitting, until Wagner retires. So now also 'at risk' is CdG. We could play a specialist batsman at 6, CdG's 4th seamer role no longer really required.



  • @Hooroo said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Devon Conway not the test squad.

    Madness.

    After Henry Nicholls' poor test form last summer, he'll be under pressure to perform with Conway and Young breathing down his neck.



  • @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I guess another factor is, with Jamieson's elevation. We probably won't play a spinner at home for next year or 2, injuries permitting, until Wagner retires. So now also 'at risk' is CdG. We could play a specialist batsman at 6, CdG's 4th seamer role no longer really required.

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Stead said that it was unlikely they'd go into many tests without a spinner?



  • @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I guess another factor is, with Jamieson's elevation. We probably won't play a spinner at home for next year or 2, injuries permitting, until Wagner retires. So now also 'at risk' is CdG. We could play a specialist batsman at 6, CdG's 4th seamer role no longer really required.

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Stead said that it was unlikely they'd go into many tests without a spinner?

    Well, they did in their last test. But I think that was only because Patel pulled up lame.

    I'm not comfortable with it. But if the 4 seamers are fit, they are un-droppable.
    I'm uncomfortable that it will makes us lions at home but pussies away (sub-continent).

    At this stage, I would read Stead's comment as a spinner in the squad.

    Really, best balance (on paper) now would be to find a spinner who can do (or almost do) CdG's role. cough, Santner, cough.



  • @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I guess another factor is, with Jamieson's elevation. We probably won't play a spinner at home for next year or 2, injuries permitting, until Wagner retires. So now also 'at risk' is CdG. We could play a specialist batsman at 6, CdG's 4th seamer role no longer really required.

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Stead said that it was unlikely they'd go into many tests without a spinner?

    Well, they did in their last test.

    I'm not comfortable with it. But if the 4 seamers are fit, they are un-droppable.
    I'm uncomfortable that it will makes us lions at home but pussies away (sub-continent).

    At this stage, I would read Stead's comment as a spinner in the squad.

    Really, best balance (on paper) now would be to find a spinner who can do (or almost do) CdG's role. cough, Santner, cough.

    No no no no no! At test level, he's shown he's not good enough with the bat or ball.

    I like the thinking though, finding someone capable will be the hard thing.

    Cole McConchie from Canterbury would be the only middle order bat that bowls decent spin that I can think of. Wouldn't have a clue if he's up to it, but based on averages - he goes at just under 32 with the bat and just over 32 with the ball...

    Edit - I see that McConchie is captain of the NZA team to play the Windies... lets hope he goes well.



  • @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I guess another factor is, with Jamieson's elevation. We probably won't play a spinner at home for next year or 2, injuries permitting, until Wagner retires. So now also 'at risk' is CdG. We could play a specialist batsman at 6, CdG's 4th seamer role no longer really required.

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Stead said that it was unlikely they'd go into many tests without a spinner?

    Well, they did in their last test.

    I'm not comfortable with it. But if the 4 seamers are fit, they are un-droppable.
    I'm uncomfortable that it will makes us lions at home but pussies away (sub-continent).

    At this stage, I would read Stead's comment as a spinner in the squad.

    Really, best balance (on paper) now would be to find a spinner who can do (or almost do) CdG's role. cough, Santner, cough.

    No no no no no! At test level, he's shown he's not good enough with the bat or ball.

    I like the thinking though, finding someone capable will be the hard thing.

    Cole McConchie from Canterbury would be the only middle order bat that bowls decent spin that I can think of. Wouldn't have a clue if he's up to it, but based on averages - he goes at just under 32 with the bat and just over 32 with the ball...

    Edit - I see that McConchie is captain of the NZA team to play the Windies... lets hope he goes well.

    Yes, hence the coughs.
    McConchie will just be Santner-lite. I don't actually mind Santner if we accept his role, but his test batting worried me more than his bowling (if we're talking higher than 8 in the order, which we are if talking CdG substitue).

    To be honest. In the next covid effected year. I think just play each test as it comes. So ....

    • In NZ, except Hamilton, play no spinners.
    • If in subcontinent or UAE, have experienced players in Patel and Sommerville that have shown they won't be hopeless. Maybe even goodish.

    Then, further out than next year, options:

    • When Wagner retires, reintegrate Patel to being an all conditions spinner.
    • When CdG retires, hope we have by then someone who is good enough to bat top 6 and provide handy spin for home tests (Phillips or Ravindra). But use specialists for Asian tests.
    • Or just hope Ravindra is good enough to make top 5 soon anyway (poor start to season so far), and his spin (which was good at youth level) gets better at senior level.


  • Daryl Mitchell has been called into the test side to replace GdG.

    And Santner will captain the side in the last T20 game.



  • If you are like me and can't be bothered signing up to Spark Sport for this series, the 1st T20 game is live on TV1 on Friday.



  • @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Rapido said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I guess another factor is, with Jamieson's elevation. We probably won't play a spinner at home for next year or 2, injuries permitting, until Wagner retires. So now also 'at risk' is CdG. We could play a specialist batsman at 6, CdG's 4th seamer role no longer really required.

    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Stead said that it was unlikely they'd go into many tests without a spinner?

    Well, they did in their last test.

    I'm not comfortable with it. But if the 4 seamers are fit, they are un-droppable.
    I'm uncomfortable that it will makes us lions at home but pussies away (sub-continent).

    At this stage, I would read Stead's comment as a spinner in the squad.

    Really, best balance (on paper) now would be to find a spinner who can do (or almost do) CdG's role. cough, Santner, cough.

    No no no no no! At test level, he's shown he's not good enough with the bat or ball.

    I like the thinking though, finding someone capable will be the hard thing.

    Cole McConchie from Canterbury would be the only middle order bat that bowls decent spin that I can think of. Wouldn't have a clue if he's up to it, but based on averages - he goes at just under 32 with the bat and just over 32 with the ball...

    Edit - I see that McConchie is captain of the NZA team to play the Windies... lets hope he goes well.

    Yes, hence the coughs.
    McConchie will just be Santner-lite. I don't actually mind Santner if we accept his role, but his test batting worried me more than his bowling (if we're talking higher than 8 in the order, which we are if talking CdG substitue).

    To be honest. In the next covid effected year. I think just play each test as it comes. So ....

    • In NZ, except Hamilton, play no spinners.
    • If in subcontinent or UAE, have experienced players in Patel and Sommerville that have shown they won't be hopeless. Maybe even goodish.

    Then, further out than next year, options:

    • When Wagner retires, reintegrate Patel to being an all conditions spinner.
    • When CdG retires, hope we have by then someone who is good enough to bat top 6 and provide handy spin for home tests (Phillips or Ravindra). But use specialists for Asian tests.
    • Or just hope Ravindra is good enough to make top 5 soon anyway (poor start to season so far), and his spin (which was good at youth level) gets better at senior level.

    Santner lite ????? Is that even humanly possible ?



  • I see Rossco is 36, turning 37 at the end of this summer.

    I guess we're entering bonus territory with him now!



  • @Bovidae said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    If you are like me and can't be bothered signing up to Spark Sport for this series, the 1st T20 game is live on TV1 on Friday.

    Oh I forgot the cricket was on spark now.

    How much to buy the series? Could look it up myself, but being lazy.



  • @Chris-B said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I see Rossco is 36, turning 37 at the end of this summer.

    I guess we're entering bonus territory with him now!

    I’d imagine Nicholls goes up a spot once the inevitable happens.

    Can anyone tell me what’s happening with Jimmy Neeshams career ?



  • @MN5 said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Chris-B said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I see Rossco is 36, turning 37 at the end of this summer.

    I guess we're entering bonus territory with him now!

    I’d imagine Nicholls goes up a spot once the inevitable happens.

    Can anyone tell me what’s happening with Jimmy Neeshams career ?

    1. If he can get back to scoring runs...
    2. No idea. Seems to be a limited overs specialist these days though doesn't he. Though he did do well when he was in the test team.


  • @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @MN5 said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Chris-B said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    I see Rossco is 36, turning 37 at the end of this summer.

    I guess we're entering bonus territory with him now!

    I’d imagine Nicholls goes up a spot once the inevitable happens.

    Can anyone tell me what’s happening with Jimmy Neeshams career ?

    1. If he can get back to scoring runs...
    2. No idea. Seems to be a limited overs specialist these days though doesn't he. Though he did do well when he was in the test team.

    Seems to me Taylor retiring frees up Neesham as a potential replacement.

    Nichols is decent, he’ll be back.



  • On Nicholls (and everyone else).

    I've long been an advocate that when it comes to test selecting, we should largely ignore performances against Australia.

    They pretty much invariably make the guys who didn't play seem better than they are.



  • Oh geez, I missed the part about Santner being called into the test squad before.

    Is Ian Foster selecting our cricket team now too?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/123502518/black-caps-vs-west-indies-mitchell-santner-daryl-mitchell-get-test-squad-callups-for-injured-duo



  • @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Oh geez, I missed the part about Santner being called into the test squad before.

    Is Ian Foster selecting our cricket team now too?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/123502518/black-caps-vs-west-indies-mitchell-santner-daryl-mitchell-get-test-squad-callups-for-injured-duo

    Post of the year



  • So who sits out the first test?

    Surely be two of Young, Mitchell, Santner and Jamieson?



  • @Chris-B said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    So who sits out the first test?

    Surely be two of Young, Mitchell, Santner and Jamieson?

    can't see Jamieson missing out



  • @Chris-B surely Santner and Young.

    There can be no logical reason for picking Santner ahead of Jamieson. None. Zip. Nada.



  • I would have thought that Somerville was the obvious choice but Stead must want a left-arm orthodox.



  • @nzzp said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Chris-B said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    So who sits out the first test?

    Surely be two of Young, Mitchell, Santner and Jamieson?

    can't see Jamieson missing out

    Mediocre spinner and occasionally decent batsman vs big tall scary paceman who started his career with a bang ?

    Well based on selection policy in sport this year Santner is a shoe in.



  • @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Chris-B surely Santner and Young.

    There can be no logical reason for picking Santner ahead of Jamieson. None. Zip. Nada.

    That's probably the way I'd go - though I wouldn't mind seeing Young batting at 6. I guess they may want Mitchell's gentle stock bowling as an option if we're stuck in the field for a while.

    And, yeah - I've been in the camp of there being little point in playing spinners in NZ in recent times.

    Plus, having a four-pronged seam attack steaming in against the Windies would have an element of retribution!

    We should be playing at Sabina Park! 🙂



  • @MN5 said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Mediocre spinner and occasionally decent batsman vs big tall scary paceman who started his career with a bang ?

    And, in fairness, is tearing it up in Plunket Shield

    Edit: took a bit of googling, but 20 wickets at 10.85
    https://www.nzc.nz/domestic/competition-centres/plunket-shield



  • @Gunner said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @Chris-B surely Santner and Young.

    There can be no logical reason for picking Santner

    FIFY



  • Hmmmm

    Definitely don't drop Jamieson.

    My instincts tell me that best chance of wining the test is the 4 seamers plus spin/allrounder (Santner).

    My future proofing instincts tell me its a good opportunity to blood Young.

    Absolutely nothing tells me Mitchell would add much to our chances.

    The beauty of a CdG role, and Mitchell as his backup, is it allows us to play some other players we aren't 100% sure of their effectiveness for the conditions, or their test quality, or fitness to contribute over 5 days. (So, a spinner, or a tearaway).

    We don't have a tearaway (Fergusson) in the squad. So not needed to cover that.

    So, either
    6. Young
    7. Watling
    then the 4 seamers to carry almost entire bowling workload

    or
    6. Watling
    7. Santner
    then the 4 seamers to carry with Santner capable of keeping it tight, taking over bowling workload at times unsuitable for the quicks other than Wagner.

    or
    6. Watling
    7. Mitchell
    then the 4 seamers (plus Mitchell sharing workload as another medium pace seamer). I don't see much value-add.

    Mitchell has had a good start to the domestic season. Taken heaps of wickets. I don't see that really transferring to test level though on flat decks. Also got good domestic runs so far.
    I wouldn't begrudge him. Batted well on test debut last year, good against quicks. He hooks and pulls like a guy who spent his teens in Perth. He used to be very average v even domestic spin a few years ago (like 5 or 6 years ago when I formed that opinion). Haven't followed his progress to see if this is still the case.
    Great slip catcher.



  • So, I would pick Santner if I was selector. You know what you'll get. Tight overs, keeping the pressure on while Wagner is banging in the old ball at the other end. Been a cog in an extremely effective bowling attack. (but played no red ball yet this season)

    But as a fan I kind of hope they pick Young.

    No logical reason for picking Mitchell.

    I reckon they'll pick Mitchell.



  • @Rapido now that is an insight into the mind of madness lol

    I agree that they'll pick Santner - but they should absolutely go with Young.

    Taylor turning 37 this year! jaysus - I'm still nervy as hell about the ABs talent transition let alone that happening with the BCs!



  • Yeah. Jamieson changes everything for me.

    Even puts CdG place in question IMO. And, I reckon CdG bowling is awesome. Question is do we need an allrounder anymore.

    Santner's bowling in NZ has been excellent pretty darn adequate.

    He's not going to spin us to victory on the 5th day. But he's been a big part of Wagner bouncing us to victory (as has been CdG). As I'm sure Patel could be, but he effects the batting balance.

    Mitchell bowling with a 60 over old ball on a flat deck, I see as a big enough step down in quality from both CdG and Satner that I would look at a specialist batsman before him.



  • Just to complicate matters.....apparently Jamison is a handy batsman too. Possibly capable of batting 8 long term.



  • @MN5 said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Just to complicate matters.....apparently Jamison is a handy batsman too. Possibly capable of batting 8 long term.

    After his exploits to date, I'd be happy to have Kylo Ren taking a significant part in all our teams. The guy is a total boss



  • @canefan said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    @MN5 said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Just to complicate matters.....apparently Jamison is a handy batsman too. Possibly capable of batting 8 long term.

    After his exploits to date, I'd be happy to have Kylo Ren taking a significant part in all our teams. The guy is a total boss

    Extremely promising......but I don’t want him turning into another Doug Bracewell so let’s cool our jets a bit.



  • @MN5 said in New Zealand v West Indies:

    Just to complicate matters.....apparently Jamison is a handy batsman too. Possibly capable of batting 8 long term.

    Wouldn't be able to find it if I had tried, but I believe from an article a month or so ago, that he may have found and extra bit of pace this season too



  • Ferguson gets the wicket.

    Cripes.


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