Maori Super Rugby Team



  • During the post match media conference for the Maori All Blacks v Moana Pasifika, Ash Dixon suggested the if there's a Pasifika Super Rugby side why not a Maori one as well

    Do you think this could be the future for the Maori All Blacks rather than just a couple of games a year tacked on to the end of the season?



  • The NZ SR teams are based around a geographical area. Race selected teams don't fit well within that model. They have to be based somewhere, so which franchise has to compete within it's borders?

    The same applies to Moana Pasifika. I have no problem with an expansion team like that existing if it was based across the moana somewhere in the pasifika. Then it would have it's own geographic region like the existing teams.

    NZ Maori should be playing international teams



  • @Duluth said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    The NZ SR teams are based around a geographical area. Race selected teams don't fit well within that model. They have to be based somewhere, so which franchise has to compete within it's borders?

    The same applies to Moana Pasifika. I have no problem with an expansion team like that existing if it was based across the moana somewhere in the pasifika. Then it would have it's own geographic region like the existing teams.

    NZ Maori should be playing international teams

    I read something the other day that was saying with the increase in popularity of kura kaupapa it's getting harder for Māori kids to break through into super rugby since recruitment is so closely tied to elite school competitions now. I think that's a concern and NZ Rugby should probably have a think about ways to address that, but I agree that the NZ Māori are should be left to play internationals.



  • @Cyclops yep. It is an issue for everyone outside elite schools - not just Maori.

    Some people just don't develop young. Ben Smith is a prime example- kind appeared in his mid 20's as a fully formed player



  • @nzzp said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    @Cyclops yep. It is an issue for everyone outside elite schools - not just Maori.

    Some people just don't develop young. Ben Smith is a prime example- kind appeared in his mid 20's as a fully formed player

    Beat me to it. Plenty of kids get recruited to those schools.

    School Rugby has become a bit of a pet hate of mine.

    And @DrivingMaul: am not a fan. Agree with @Duluth 's response.



  • @nzzp said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    @Cyclops yep. It is an issue for everyone outside elite schools - not just Maori.

    Some people just don't develop young. Ben Smith is a prime example- kind appeared in his mid 20's as a fully formed player

    Is that actually true for Ben Smith? IIRC he played U20s/U21s for NZ so he was in the system, but his selection to the ABs was in his first Super season. It was more the general public didn't really know about him.

    On the Kura Kaupapa, I wouldn't think there are that many schools out there that would be sucking up lots of good rugby players.



  • @Nepia Looking at wikipedia, looks like he made his Mitre10 cup debut at 22 or so, and bounced around for a few years. Had 1 appeareance for the U21s, scored a try. So definitely not seen as a star at that stage.



  • As a pakeha NZer. I support the NZ Maori (Maori All Blacks) even though I am not Maori because they are an NZ representative team (with restrictions) who play teams from other countries.

    A Maori SR team would be ridiculous and divisive, but I'm glad it is raised, because it highlights how ridiculous an Auckland Pasifika SR team is.

    I've already written on the other thread that I am 100% opposed to an NZ based ethnic SR team playing and based within the borders of NZ geographic SR teams. It's just plain idiocy.



  • But taking it 'seriously'. There is more case for a Maori SR team than a Pasifika SR team based in NZ. Bigger population and therefore support base and therefore more likely to financially survive.

    Both would eat the lunch of the other 5 franchises, considerably eat the lunch of presumably Auckland Blues if that is where it is based.

    But both 758% worse options than the Knightiwhas. Who only eat the lunch of one franchise and have a dense population base of circa 600k.



  • there is a gap in the HB/Manawatu/Taranaki belt that neither the Chiefs nor the Canes really give a fuck about, they could base something there.

    the only real concern i have is, where are we finding the additional 70-odd professional standard players to fill these rosters?



  • @mariner4life Hawkes Bay Magpies Maori team has a nice ring to it.

    Brad Weber and Wharau Whakatawa are a good start at halfback. 😀



  • Looking at population if there's going to be another SR franchise then it should really be in Tauranga so that it has a population base and doesn't eat into the other franchises that can't fill their stadiums already

    1 Auckland 1,470,100
    2 Christchurch 383,200
    3 Wellington 215,100
    4 Hamilton 176,500
    5 Tauranga 151,300
    6 Lower Hutt 110,700
    7 Dunedin 106,200
    8 Palmerston North 81,500
    9 Napier 66,300
    10 Hibiscus Coast 59,800
    11 Porirua 59,600



  • @booboo Got to agree the school rugby doesn't make sense for the sport or players to me.

    Ngarimu Blair made the point recently and I agree with him that kids should keep playing in their clubs not disappear off to school and never come back

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/300173111/super-aotearoa-new-zealand-rugby-miss-a-trick-as-mori-players-suffer?fbclid=IwAR3VqLh76Jig6Ma3W12Zlky1d7usDwr02RXg4iXTKCYtYvlYiNrrVUFJqRA



  • @DrivingMaul You can’t put a franchise in a place with a stock car track and a half stand sports ground as the only options as a home base.

    Plus, you really should go Rotorua if you want a Maori team. I mean Tauranga likely counts Simon Bridges in its Maori population. 😉



  • @DrivingMaul not that I am advocating a Northland team, Whangarei District is almost 100,000 so slots in at 8th.



  • @taniwharugby said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    @DrivingMaul not that I am advocating a Northland team, Whangarei District is almost 100,000 so slots in at 8th.

    @DrivingMauls raw statistics have a few holes in them. I can only assume that is Napier’s city population and it disregards the over 70k odd people who can get to McLean park from Hastings in 20 odd minutes.



  • Change the name of the Chiefs to Rangatira and call it a day, wouldn't bother me tbh.



  • @Yeetyaah said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    Change the name of the Chiefs to Rangatira and call it a day, wouldn't bother me tbh.

    Already have the appropriately weak squad for a 6th or 7th franchise.



  • @Tim fuck you're funny, but if you wanna throw down, they've won a title more recently than the Blues who have had their first good season in 9 years.



  • @Yeetyaah With a completely different squad that didn't lose eight straight games. Doesn't really seem relevant.



  • @Yeetyaah he was pretty funny.

    Plus, we're building nicely I reckon - not having three coaches in three years (fishing emoji)



  • @nzzp not denying the Blues are building. Just trying to shut Tim and his ridiculous bias out.



  • @DrivingMaul said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    @booboo Got to agree the school rugby doesn't make sense for the sport or players to me.
    Ngarimu Blair made the point recently and I agree with him that kids should keep playing in their clubs not disappear off to school and never come back

    In the modern era the strength of New Zealand rugby is in the professionalism at school boy competition. Yes players who can't afford to go to elite schools or don't demonstrate the physical capability at an early age miss out, but NZR is better placed finding solutions to that than trying to construct a 10 team professional competition based on club rugby.

    In my opinion Ngarimu's argument is a pipe dream devoid of understanding market economics. Unless NZ becomes a closed market.

    And I'd have preferred TJP played the last couple of seasons for the Māori.



  • @Yeetyaah You shouldn't take the bait!



  • @Nepia Oh it would need a new stadium

    Even Bay of Plenty would like to have all their games in Tauranga rather than Rotorua as no one turns up. I get the cultural and historical link but Rotorua is a non-starter financially



  • @Nepia Yup I've just lifted them from Wikipedia. Still is there a larger catchment population than Tauranga that isn't serviced by a Super Rugby franchise already?

    If so I'm happy that city is put in place of Tauranga. Either way I don't think South Auckland is a great place for a 6th franchise. I get when a Pasifika team would want to be there though



  • @antipodean I don't agree with his 10 team professional competition but I do think kids staying with their clubs is a good idea. Trying to get players to come back to clubs after school is one of the reasons that club rugby is really struggling with numbers (note one reason not all the reasons)



  • @DrivingMaul said in Maori Super Rugby Team:

    @antipodean I don't agree with his 10 team professional competition but I do think kids staying with their clubs is a good idea. Trying to get players to come back to clubs after school is one of the reasons that club rugby is really struggling with numbers (note one reason not all the reasons)

    Certainly - there's no reason why strong school development has to mean players don't go back to club rugby. The elephant in the room is if these kids who play at school would give it away regardless on graduation.


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