Best Test XI - POLL - Bowlers



  • 4 Bowlers to take 20 wickets



  • Nominate your bowlers.
    Nominations require a summary as to why they're being nominated/why people should vote for them.



  • Chris Cairns.

    Cos he can bat better than any other specialist bowler

    Excellent paceman at his best too



  • I guess someone has to nominate Paddles, because best ever.



  • Bond - absolutely unplayable in his prime even against the very best batting lineups. If injury hadn't curtailed his career he would have ended up with bucket loads of wickets at 20 odd. He was honestly one of the best I've watched; accurate, prodigious swing at 150+ clicks. Made some very fine players look like bunnies.



  • Vettori would take the spinner slot wouldn't he?



  • Trent Boult. The most likely wicket taker of the current group of quicks, who are collectively, our best ever group of quicks.



  • Neil Wagner. The only bowler in the world who takes wickets with sheer willpower.



  • Tim Southee, because I hear this Best Test XI are not playing outside of NZ...



  • @gt12 said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    I guess someone has to nominate Paddles, because best ever.

    The amount of Michelle’s that Paddles got was pretty damn impressive.



  • @MajorRage said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Trent Boult. The most likely wicket taker of the current group of quicks, who are collectively, our best ever group of quicks.

    I find it interesting how Boult is usually rated as the best of the current lot, when in fact there is very little between him Southee and Wagner.

    A quick look at the stats:

    Wickets:
    S 296, B 272, W 215

    Average:
    S 28.58, B 27.96, W 26.33

    Strike Rate:
    S 56.8, B 56.1, W 51.5

    4w/5w/10w
    S 17/11/1, B 15/8/1, W 10/9/0

    All very good bowlers, who all have a good case for inclusion in a best ever XI



  • Jack Cowie because Bradman was his bunny

    Only played nine tests because of WWII but read his cricinfo summary

    From Wisden: 'Had he been an Australian, he might have been termed a wonder of the age.' This refers to Jack Cowie's efforts on the 1937 tour of England, when he took 114 wickets at 19.95

    He's not like Bond in that his body couldn't hold up In 1946 in his sole test against Aussie he took 41-6

    The following year he took 46-6 against England including Washbrook, Yardley, Compton, Hammond - no slouched with the bat.

    Even on his last tour to England in 1949 at age 37 he still took 14 wickets at just over 25.



  • @Gunner said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    @MajorRage said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Trent Boult. The most likely wicket taker of the current group of quicks, who are collectively, our best ever group of quicks.

    I find it interesting how Boult is usually rated as the best of the current lot, when in fact there is very little between him Southee and Wagner.

    A quick look at the stats:

    Wickets:
    S 296, B 272, W 215

    Average:
    S 28.58, B 27.96, W 26.33

    Strike Rate:
    S 56.8, B 56.1, W 51.5

    4w/5w/10w
    S 17/11/1, B 15/8/1, W 10/9/0

    All very good bowlers, who all have a good case for inclusion in a best ever XI

    I think Southee has gotten a bit better whereas Boult has possibly regressed. Wags has just continued doing what he does best and snuck into the discussion.

    The thing to remember is whilst we love them and we’re blessed to have them all at once none is a true legend of Paddles/Bond proportions



  • Hadlee is a fucking moral. Pen him in to the side, he is first picked.

    Next i am picking Bond, because i have only ever seen one NZ bowler (who isn't Hadlee) have other teams genuinely look out of their depth. I don't give a fuck how small that window was, it was as good as i have seen from anyone.

    Boult because he is a left armer, but i am shocked that his record is pretty average.

    And then i am seriously considering dropping Vettori for Wags. Both play the same role.



  • @mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    And then i am seriously considering dropping Vettori for Wags. Both play the same role.

    Agree, especially if the 'game' was going to be played in NZ. It's not like our Daniel turned the ball.



  • @mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Next i am picking Bond, because i have only ever seen one NZ bowler (who isn't Hadlee) have other teams genuinely look out of their depth. I don't give a fuck how small that window was, it was as good as i have seen from anyone.

    Right on....!!!

    Strike Rate:
    S 56.8, B 56.1, W 51.5 Bond,... Shane Bond 38.7



  • @mariner4life said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Hadlee is a fucking moral. Pen him in to the side, he is first picked.

    Next i am picking Bond, because i have only ever seen one NZ bowler (who isn't Hadlee) have other teams genuinely look out of their depth. I don't give a fuck how small that window was, it was as good as i have seen from anyone.

    Boult because he is a left armer, but i am shocked that his record is pretty average.

    And then i am seriously considering dropping Vettori for Wags. Both play the same role.

    Yes, agree.



  • Now that I have had my bottom smacked for breaking the rules in the batting thread, given we can only pick players in their usual positions, and we seem to be pretty much settled on our new ball bowlers, Hadlee and Bond, who is our third and fourth seamer? Can't be Boult or Southee, because they usually open the bowling.

    Wags must now be a certainty.



  • The ONLY thing stopping Bond cantering in is if you argue another seamers longevity is more valuable.

    So for me it’s possibly Bond vs Boult/Wagner



  • @Crazy-Horse said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Now that I have had my bottom smacked for breaking the rules in the batting thread, given we can only pick players in their usual positions, and we seem to be pretty much settled on our new ball bowlers, Hadlee and Bond, who is our third and fourth seamer? Can't be Boult or Southee, because they usually open the bowling.

    Wags must now be a certainty.

    Wags, and no 4th seamer. Vettori.



  • The more I think about it and the fact I’ve seen all of these guys doing their thing live, I’ll take

    1-Hadlee
    2-Bond
    3-Boult
    4-Vettori (Eden Park 2000...)



  • Picking this quartet has done my head in this week. Too open ended. Some thoughts:

    • Vettori was never really a world class wicket taking bowler in test cricket. It's hard to include him in the side on that basis when Boult, Southee and Wags are.
    • Then again mid-to-late career Vettori in peak run containment mode bowling in tandem with Hadlee is a delicious prospect. Vettori would essentially be a better version of Chats, with more variation and the ability to bowl longer spells.
    • Boult over Southee pretty comfortably for me.


  • Im with rotated on Vettori, great player no doubt, incredible captain in his own right, also could hold a bat and often used to just tie up an end, but if the goal of the test team is to take 20 wickets, then I want wicket takers.

    Paddles by a thooousand, then Bond and then it becomes who delivers next. Boult and Southee on their days get third, but would only take one and I would rather have Boult as well.

    For me the fourth bowler is Wags. He can and has bowled long spells, even in Australia when the rest of his team cant handle the heat. Often the only one who takes wickets when there is no swing/pitch assistance, which Southee, Boult both struggle with. He is a genuine wicket taker when the pitch offers nothing and can swing we it does offer something.

    There you go, Dan the man misses my test all time team if it is to take 20 wickets.



  • I’m picking five because my keeper is batting six and I don’t think Williamson and Crowe provide nearly enough as bowling alternatives.

    Paddles, Bond, Boult, Cairns, Vettori



  • I agree with Wags over Vettori. I do remember reading somewhere that Vettori was far more effective when he had a half decent bowler at the other end, which he would have in an all time XI. But Wags has the stats on the board so has to be our 4th option.



  • @bayimports said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Im with rotated on Vettori, great player no doubt, incredible captain in his own right, also could hold a bat and often used to just tie up an end, but if the goal of the test team is to take 20 wickets, then I want wicket takers.

    Paddles by a thooousand, then Bond and then it becomes who delivers next. Boult and Southee on their days get third, but would only take one and I would rather have Boult as well.

    For me the fourth bowler is Wags. He can and has bowled long spells, even in Australia when the rest of his team cant handle the heat. Often the only one who takes wickets when there is no swing/pitch assistance, which Southee, Boult both struggle with. He is a genuine wicket taker when the pitch offers nothing and can swing we it does offer something.

    There you go, Dan the man misses my test all time team if it is to take 20 wickets.

    Interesting chat. Is Vettori our best ever spinner ? Fuck yes, him then daylight. I loved his pluckiness, tenacious batting, captaincy......everything. I doubt any NZ player has ever got more out of his talent than he has......

    BUT......

    teams didn't ever "fear" him and what he could do like Warne, Kumble or Murali. If conditions didn't suit then he could be pretty ordinary at times.

    Wonderful servant but I realise that while I'd personally still pick him he's not an automatic selection like I've thought in the past.

    Possibly off topic but I really hope the selectors take note of the demolition job that Boult, Southee, Wagner and Jamieson inflicted on the Windies and don't keep shoehorning yet another shithouse spinner for the sake of having a spinner.



  • Is Dan V our best ever spinner?

    How does Bracewell compare?



  • Braces: 41 test, 102 wickets @ 35.81, 4 x5s, 1x10
    Vettori: 113 tests, 364 @ 34.36, 20 x5s, 3 x10s

    Comparable but Vettori ahead on all counts, especially wickets per test (3.2 v 2.5).



  • Braces got the shits with NZ cricket and retired as soon as he achieved the 100 wickets/1000 runs double, so maybe he could have done more if he'd stuck around longer, but as above, Vettori had the better career even on the averages, not just sheer longevity.



  • @booboo said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Braces: 41 test, 102 wickets @ 35.81, 4 x5s, 1x10
    Vettori: 113 tests, 364 @ 34.36, 20 x5s, 3 x10s

    Comparable but Vettori ahead on all counts, especially wickets per test (3.2 v 2.5).

    Classic ferning, replying to your own post !



  • Nominees to date:

    Cairns
    Hadlee
    Bond
    Vettori
    Boult
    Wagner
    Southee
    Cowie
    Bracewell



  • @Gunner said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Nominees to date:

    Cairns
    Hadlee
    Bond
    Vettori
    Boult
    Wagner
    Southee
    Cowie
    Bracewell

    Was someone drunk ?



  • I'd support leaving out Dan if we were just playing on today's NZ pitches.

    But, if this team has to play in the subcontinent, then I don't think you can afford to play without a spinner.



  • Chatfield

    Can we nominate a combo - Dan about 2-3 years into his career before his back injury for his attacking bowling (honestly, watch him then and there was flight, loop and turn) and later Dan for his batting and bowling variations?



  • @KiwiPie said in Best Test XI - NOMINATIONS - Bowlers:

    Can we nominate a combo - Dan about 2-3 years into his career before his back injury for his attacking bowling (honestly, watch him then and there was flight, loop and turn) and later Dan for his batting and bowling variations?

    So you want two Dans in your team? I'm a fan of his but two?


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