Brexit



  • @MajorRage said in Brexit:

    So Merkel has told BoJo basically a deal ain't happening under the terms / ideas he's proposed.

    Still breaking, so tough to come up with what this exactly means. UK leaves without a deal? Corbyn and co get their way?

    Well, No10 say that Merkel says etc. Who knows? But @Baron-Silas-Greenback is right, if true, this gives Boris some serious ammo to go down the no deal route.



  • Indeed. Although if he officially moves his position to "no-deal" then we know that the rest of parliament is going to move heaven and earth to disrupt and ensure this doesn't happen.

    Which means likely another delay.
    Which means likely stuck in this never ending loop for much longer yet.



  • @MajorRage I just don't know what the answer is or what the outcome will be. Everyone says we're going out but no-one wants us to go (parliament that is). Good deal, shit deal, no deal. It doesn't seem to make much difference.

    Groundhog Day.



  • I can see what Britain is doing to avoid a no deal, I can see the compromises they have made, I can see the ideas they have.
    I havent seen any ideas or compromises from the eu or opposition.
    Ireland also seem to be acting like it isn't their problem



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:

    I can see what Britain is doing to avoid a no deal, I can see the compromises they have made, I can see the ideas they have.
    I havent seen any ideas or compromises from the eu or opposition.
    Ireland also seem to be acting like it isn't their problem

    I can see where the EU are coming from thought. They don’t want to make it an easy transition out in case it encourages any others to leave. Ireland I’m not so sure about. I don’t know enough about Varadkar to understand his motivation.



  • @Catogrande said in Brexit:

    I can see where the EU are coming from thought. They don’t want to make it an easy transition out in case it encourages any others to leave.

    This point hasn't been driven home well enough by the conservatives, specifically May when she kept going back for MV after MV.

    Europe and Britain come to the negotiating table with very different motivations. A win-win economic scenario for both parties is actually a win-lose scenario for Europe if it emboldens other countries to strive toward independence.

    While I wouldn't go so far as to say it is negotiating in good faith there is no doubt that the EU want to make an example out of them.

    Ironically, Cameron had he stayed was in the best position to prosecute that argument having already gone through two high-profile negotations with the EU.



  • @Catogrande said in Brexit:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:

    I can see what Britain is doing to avoid a no deal, I can see the compromises they have made, I can see the ideas they have.
    I havent seen any ideas or compromises from the eu or opposition.
    Ireland also seem to be acting like it isn't their problem

    I can see where the EU are coming from thought. They don’t want to make it an easy transition out in case it encourages any others to leave. Ireland I’m not so sure about. I don’t know enough about Varadkar to understand his motivation.

    Oh absolutely, I dont even know if the British ideas are good!
    But I know that theyare trying. It just seems like all you hear form the EU and Opposition is that is 'unworkable' , well if you are going to take that line.... you have to at least try yourself to find something yourself that is workable. At the moment they are just standing back 'poo pooing' everything. Its like Bojo is trying to build a fence between him and his neighbors and the neighbor just watches and then goes that is shit never going to work.. and that is it.
    At some point you just say fuck it you pompous objectionable twunt and you put up a fence that looks sweet from your side and all the sawn timber ends, rough cuts and nails are on his side. And anyone watching would think... yeah he deserved that.



  • Does Britain have any laws about PM's not having a criminal record? What if Boris at the last minute simply refuses to be forced to write a letter begging for an extension? That would break the law, possibly result in his arrest and even imprisonment. Not sure that will quell his popularity..If anything he might take on a bit of a 'freedom fighter' image.



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:

    I can see what Britain is doing to avoid a no deal, I can see the compromises they have made, I can see the ideas they have.
    I havent seen any ideas or compromises from the eu or opposition.
    Ireland also seem to be acting like it isn't their problem

    I, like most others, have absolutely no clue what game Varadkar is playing.

    Now just because Britain voted to leave the EU, that doesn't mean the Irish should suffer at all - and I totally get that. We've already seen a few companies move headquarters etc to Ireland since the vote, and hence if they play their cards right, they can do very well out of this.

    However, the reality is that they have the only land border with the UK & a large amount of their economy is based on trade with the UK. A few months ago I saw that the number of Irish living in the UK is > 500k. This may have changed now, but I doubt it. Varadkar should be coming across as the mediator, but instead is coming across the the most against.

    It seems that the EU is saying to Varadkar, we've got your back no problems and hence his position is to just rubbish every single thing that Boris says. It seems that saying something won't work is the default, as opposed to trying to work things through.

    I've still no idea how this is going to unfold. But my overall position remains unchanged, and frankly, unchallenged. An agreement which takes 27 countries 12 minutes to sign, aginst one country which cannot get it through parliament in 3 attempts, is not a good deal.

    Tusk's blame game tweet was just ridiculous, although that's something he has form in already. It does seem like the EU position is now "no-deal but blame Britain". I wonder which way this sort of approach is going to push UK voters ....



  • @MajorRage said in Brexit:

    Now just because Britain voted to leave the EU, that doesn't mean the Irish should suffer at all - and I totally get that.

    Suffer? No. But they need to face up to the reality that previous conveniences and luxuries that were once there no longer will be (as must the UK).

    Just because the UK is choosing to withdraw from the customs union and common market doesn't mean they have to be responsible for all the ramifications.



  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-guy-verhofstadt-eu-brexiteers-traitors-deal-a9149316.html

    "The real reason why this is happening is very simply: it's a blame game against everybody. A blame game against the European Union, against Ireland, against Mrs Merkel, against the British judicial system, against Labour, against the Lib Dems, even against Mrs May," he said.

    "The only one who is not to be blamed is Mr Johnson himself, apparently. But all the rest are the source of our problems. That is what is happening today. All those who are not playing his game are 'traitors' or a 'collaborator', or 'surrenderers'.

    "Well in my opinion, dear colleagues the real traitor is he or she who risks bringing disaster upon his country, its economy, and its citizens, by pushing Britain out of the European Union. That is in my opinion, a traitor."

    Between Sassoli saying he was now bypassing the executive and going to Bercow (??) and now this the EU are massively misplaying their hand.

    Why on earth would you interject the EU into national politics this close to the deadline and then use the same language against Boris than Labor clutched their pearls over last week?



  • Well well. Leo and Boris spent a nice day together, and both have come out saying they can see a path.

    I think this is hopefully a significant step. I guess whether or not it holds water, we shall see - I wouldn't say I'm overly optimistic, but it's nice to see UK / Ireland co-operating and being realistic about things.

    But then, of course .. Tusk has to go and say this:

    Donald Tusk
    The UK has still not come forward with a workable, realistic proposal. But I have received promising signals from Taoiseach @LeoVaradkar that a deal is possible. Even the slightest chance must be used. A no deal #Brexit will never be the choice of the EU.

    Is he actively trying to create a divide? Seriously.

    I'm an avid (not active, avid) Remainer and I'm starting to move away ... why on earth would he tweet that?????







  • @Tim Next step - getting those twats in Parliament to pass it.
    not.holding.breath.



  • https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_6120

    The revised Protocol provides a legally operational solution that avoids a hard border on the island of Ireland, protects the all-island economy and the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement in all its dimensions and safeguards the integrity of the Single Market. This solution responds to the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland with the aim of protecting peace and stability.

    All other elements of the Withdrawal Agreement remain unchanged in substance, as per the agreement reached on 14 November 2018. The Withdrawal Agreement brings legal certainty where the UK's withdrawal from the EU created uncertainty: citizens' rights, the financial settlement, a transition period at least until the end of 2020, governance, Protocols on Gibraltar and Cyprus, as well as a range of other separation issues.



  • @Tim said in Brexit:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_6120

    The revised Protocol provides a legally operational solution that avoids a hard border on the island of Ireland, protects the all-island economy and the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement in all its dimensions and safeguards the integrity of the Single Market. This solution responds to the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland with the aim of protecting peace and stability.

    All other elements of the Withdrawal Agreement remain unchanged in substance, as per the agreement reached on 14 November 2018. The Withdrawal Agreement brings legal certainty where the UK's withdrawal from the EU created uncertainty: citizens' rights, the financial settlement, a transition period at least until the end of 2020, governance, Protocols on Gibraltar and Cyprus, as well as a range of other separation issues.

    It's been a while since I looked into that agreement..from memory there were some other big issues, might need to do a refresher.

    Going to be an interesting few days. What will Farage do? Will Labour and Lib Dem's still vote it down?..I'm guessing they probably would and as a result give Boris another win.



  • @Rembrandt said in Brexit:

    @Tim said in Brexit:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_19_6120

    The revised Protocol provides a legally operational solution that avoids a hard border on the island of Ireland, protects the all-island economy and the Good Friday (Belfast) Agreement in all its dimensions and safeguards the integrity of the Single Market. This solution responds to the unique circumstances on the island of Ireland with the aim of protecting peace and stability.

    All other elements of the Withdrawal Agreement remain unchanged in substance, as per the agreement reached on 14 November 2018. The Withdrawal Agreement brings legal certainty where the UK's withdrawal from the EU created uncertainty: citizens' rights, the financial settlement, a transition period at least until the end of 2020, governance, Protocols on Gibraltar and Cyprus, as well as a range of other separation issues.

    It's been a while since I looked into that agreement..from memory there were some other big issues, might need to do a refresher.

    Going to be an interesting few days. What will Farage do? Will Labour and Lib Dem's still vote it down?..I'm guessing they probably would and as a result give Boris another win.

    I haven't kept too close to this over the last couple of weeks, so this comment is based on instinct more than anything else... But if BJ has done a deal acceptable to the EU, after clearly favouring just crashing out, then a lack of Labour support (or anyone else for that matter) I suggest would play into Johnson's hand for a general election. I think most of the UK just want to move on and I suspect parliamentary bickering is starting to get on people's nerves.

    But as i said. The above view is based on nada...



  • Been following it closely. The fact the EU have moved on the withdrawal agreement (for Ireland) after stating so many times they wouldn't is a big win for Boris.

    Govt have calculated they can split the DUP and ERG, just keeping support of the latter, and get it through parliament by picking up the 19 or so Pro-Brexit Labour MPs and a big enough chunk of the expelled 21 Tory MPs. It will be very tight, and decided on Saturday (hopefully after the rugby).



  • Laura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    Barnier spells out that they have replaced the backstop - so while DUP still has concerns, the backstop was the biggest problem and it’s gone - that is a persuasive argument for brexiteers


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