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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="600251" data-time="1469482890">
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<p>You over egged something? ok...</p>
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<p>And would you please stop with the nonsense claiming to know why people voted, the only fact is that nobody except the individual voters know why they voted. You have absolutely ZERO real evidence to support your claim that a 'big chunk' of Brexit voters want EU citizens to be forced to leave. That is just a narrative. And no, your quaint little article isnt real proof</p>
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<p>There is no way any poltician, no matter who they are, will be able to kick people out. The absolute best case scenario for those who voted because they wanted existing to leave (of which I'm sure there are many), is that existing get Grandfathered in & there is a change in regulations only for new applicants.</p>
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<p>You just simply cannot kick out people who have set down roots in a country due to a change in political stance.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="600191" data-time="1469455796">
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<p>But you don't get the difference between believing in shit that can't be done & waiting & seeing? IE if I promise you a rainbow shitting unicorn will you actually wait & see if I deliver it before you ask for your money back?</p>
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<p>How far back do you scale it? IE at what stage do you have pledges that are rubbish but you are OK believing? A border wall? Full access & secured borders? This year has been a shitshow of polititians blatently lying & people being so desperate to belive that they just go with it.</p>
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<p>Prior election cycles we had bullshit, but it was either vague ("I'll clean up wall street!"), of technically deliverable ("more jobs for high school leavers!"). And they've been lies, but you didn't need to utterly disconnect from reality to go with it. 2016 its been "you need to just want this to be true". </p>
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<p><strong>I've over egged that, </strong>no I don't think any of the mainstream Leave guys (Farage, Boris, Gove) promised to kick them out, the issue is more the people voted for that & the fringe groups who you would hope no one took seriously raised it, <em>but very much the fringe only.</em> However you now have a big chunk who voted Brexit thinking thats coming - hence the shit directed at Poles post brexit. Its not going to happen, and thats going to be a problem. </p>
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<p>You don't fucking say.</p> -
Ok, seems it's already starting to take effect...fucking finally!
https://www.kfc.co.uk/our-food/for-one/burgers/double-down-bacon-burger
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Ressurrecting this thread as the Brit Politics one has become a clone of all the other threads as an avenue for one sided ideology 'discussion'
Meanwhile the very real problem of implementing Brexit remains an absolute clusterfuck.
'Even Baldrick had a plan' is probably the most concise summary/slogan I have seen.Now Jo Johnson (Boris' less dorky brother) has resigned his cabinet position over the latest plan and, even more frightening, Corbyn has has a security briefing from MI5 in preparation of a possible election.
The latest attempt by May to navigate the waters infested by the Northern Irish sharks she introduced herself has created a plan where absolutely no one gets what they want and the EU walk away pissing themselves with laughter.
Roughly it goes- we leave Europe (kind of)
- we pay Europe £37billion to 'kind of' leave
- we keep all the trade rules and borders as they are (because we only just realised we actually get most of our food that way) AND let Europe decide the rules
- we let all the Euro immigrants stay here and make it easy for them to keep coming
-and we won't enter other trade agreements that might upset Europe - by the way, our biggest money generator (being a world financial capital)? Well, we will let that scatter through Europe as well as the bankers all run for cover as they see our ineptitude.
In years to come history academics are going to be mining this last couple of years for endless examples of how not to manage a country.
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Ressurrecting this thread as the Brit Politics one has become a clone of all the other threads as an avenue for one sided ideology 'discussion'
Meanwhile the very real problem of implementing Brexit remains an absolute clusterfuck.
'Even Baldrick had a plan' is probably the most concise summary/slogan I have seen.Now Jo Johnson (Boris' less dorky brother) has resigned his cabinet position over the latest plan and, even more frightening, Corbyn has has a security briefing from MI5 in preparation of a possible election.
The latest attempt by May to navigate the waters infested by the Northern Irish sharks she introduced herself has created a plan where absolutely no one gets what they want and the EU walk away pissing themselves with laughter.
Roughly it goes- we leave Europe (kind of)
- we pay Europe £37billion to 'kind of' leave
- we keep all the trade rules and borders as they are (because we only just realised we actually get most of our food that way) AND let Europe decide the rules
- we let all the Euro immigrants stay here and make it easy for them to keep coming
-and we won't enter other trade agreements that might upset Europe - by the way, our biggest money generator (being a world financial capital)? Well, we will let that scatter through Europe as well as the bankers all run for cover as they see our ineptitude.
In years to come history academics are going to be mining this last couple of years for endless examples of how not to manage a country.
May and her cronies have handled this so incredibly badly.. I just cannot believ they have not been rolled by their own party. The whole thing is sickening. Brexit could have gone fine, if you had even halfway competent leaders with a backbone. The UK has spineless buffoons in charge, the Brexit vote was a licence for the UK to confront the EU, not appease it.
But what really grinds my gears, is that the most likely result from this is...a Corbyn govt...
The UK is fucked.
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My optimistic prediction.
- May to go.
- Dream team of Boris, Rees-Mogg, Davis put in charge of negotiations with expert assistance from Orange man & Farage
- Dream team tell the EU go go $%#^% themselves
- Wait a few weeks while media outlets scream about the impending complete collapse of the UK
- EU comes crawling back realising they need Britain more than Britain needs them
- Terms negotiated by March.
- 1-2 years - Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Italy & Greece all start making moves on an exit also
- 5-10 years time eurosceptic parties start taking control in Sweden, France and Germany
- 20 years time EU collapses entirely.
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@rembrandt said in Brexit:
My optimistic prediction.
May to go.
Dream team of Boris, Rees-Mogg, Davis put in charge of negotiations with expert assistance from Orange man & Farage -
@antipodean said in Brexit:
@rembrandt said in Brexit:
My optimistic prediction.
May to go.
Dream team of Boris, Rees-Mogg, Davis put in charge of negotiations with expert assistance from Orange man & FarageHaters gonna hate
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But seriously though I think if they were going to roll May they would have done it by now, surely they won't be waiting until the final deal? Corbyn government it might just be, along with a massive Brexit mess.
Despite this it seems the economy is improving.
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@rembrandt said in Brexit:
My optimistic prediction.
- Dream team tell the EU go go $%#^% themselves
It has been tried already. The EU called the bluff. A no-deal Brexit is the reality that the UK are now realising is going to be a disaster.
This is what happens when you allow people to vote on an ideology without a plan.
The concept that the UK can just 'walk away' is great if they are loaded with cash and have put all the appropriate change strategy in place but there was no strategy. It was all hot air.
I totally get that the EU is a bureaucratic mess and that people would want out. I also get that some people will never have as strong a 'community' view as others and want to 'look after themselves'. My disbelief about Brexit is that such an important change never had a plan, or even a set of clear requirements. The only requirement is that the leave vote was slightly higher than the remain one. The majority voted a desire to leave. They left it up to the squabbling idiots (held hostage by a small group of backward thinking minority MPs) to work out how to do it without negatively affecting their lives. The leave campaign said it would be easy (and still does) while ignoring the realities of trade, commerce, Northern Ireland and the makeup of the workforce in society.
Whether you agree with the ideals or not there was never going to be a quick and easy way out of Europe and a change required careful planning.What Jo Johnson (and others) are advocating is that neither a 'no deal' situation OR the proposals May puts up are what people envisaged when they voted in the referendum and that either a halt to the process should be called or a vote be taken on whatever deal is finalised.
It is a crazy clusterfuck of generation changing importance based on a simply worded referendum with no plan behind it.
May can't be rolled by her own party unless by a group that has the support of the DUP. Those that think the hardline Brexiteers will do better than May are totally ignoring the NI border issue. This is the very real sticking point and the one area that the EU can say 'can't have your cake and eat it guys, what will it be?'.
A new election not only carries the very real threat of a Corbyn govt dragging the UK back into 1970, but will likely strengthen the DUP who will campaign heavily on 'no border' -
A reasonable article about the situation
I think this comment after the article hits on a solution that deserves exploring.
No matter how long we had to think about the Irish question. there is no rational answer. There either has to be a policed border between North and South, or in the Irish Sea; neither of which are acceptable. Jo Johnson is right - we find ourselves between the proverbial rock and hard place. The only alternative seems to be going back, tail between legs and staying in. But isn't there another alternative, which would allow all to come out with dignity in tact, which is to say we will withdraw Article 50 and stay in, at the top table, but only if the conditions of our membership are significantly improved ... insert your own list of rule changes and vetoes here. This is surely a really good moment to renegotiate our membership on our terms. And then let's go back to the people and see which route they favour.
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Brexit in many ways is a catastrophic fuck up, but I share the view of others that the EU not the long term position of strength that it portrays itself to be. To be frank, rich countries working together under one umbrealla of terms, works fine. Poorer countries, probably too. But not wealthy and poor. Free movement of people between UK & Romania ... hardly going to be a two-way trade is it.
But I'm really bored of Boris Johnson. He's got this ideal that nobody in Europe will ever agree to, and seems to have just forgotten about the land border with Ireland. He's talking tough, but just coming across like a floppy haired buffoon.
Brexit