Waratahs v Brumbies



  • Waratahs:

    1. Benn Robinson (147 caps)  2. Hugh Roach (11 caps)  3. Tom Robertson (3 caps)  4. Dean Mumm (91 caps)  5. Will Skelton (43 caps)  6. Jack Dempsey (8 caps)  7. Michael Hoopah (C – 86 caps)  8. Jed Holloway (9 caps)
    2. Nick Phipps (87 caps)  10. Bernard Foley (67 caps)  11. Matt Carraro (45 caps)  12. Kurtley Beale (119 caps)  13. Israel Folau (50 caps)  14. Reece Robinson (3 caps)  15. Andrew Kellaway (1 cap)
       
      Reserves:
    3. James Hilterbrand (3 caps)  17. Paddy Ryan (67 caps)  18. Angus Ta’avao (53 caps)  19. Sam Lousi (9 caps)  20. Wycliff Palu (125 caps)  21. David Dennis (97 caps)  22. Matt Lucas (17 caps)  23. David Horwitz (5 caps)
       
      Kurtley Beale and Will Skelton returning from injury, while Zac Guildford is ruled out because of a broken foot.
       
       
      Brumbies:
    4. Scott Sio  2. Stephen Moore (c)  3. Ben Alexander  4. Rory Arnold  5. Sam Carter  6. Scott Fardy  7. Jarrad Butler  8. Jordan Smiler
    5. Tomás Cubelli  10. Christian Lealiifano (c)  11. Joe Tomane  12. Matt Toomua  13. Tevita Kuridrani  14. Robbie Coleman  15. Aidan Toua
       
      Reserves
    6. Josh Mann-Rea  17. Allan Alaalatoa  18. Leslie Leulua’iali’i-Makin  19. Tom Staniforth  20. Michael Wells  21. Joe Powell  22. James Dargaville  23. Nigel Ah Wong
       
      Jarrad Butler returns from injury and takes the place left open by David Pocock (suspended), while Jordan Smiler replaces retired Ita Vaea in the starting line-up.


  • Tough game for Kellaway to get his first start - and at fullback too - more of a runner from what i've seen.
    Taavao pays the price for a poor season, Folau at centre to finally be tried after injury forced a backline reshuffle for Rebels game.



  • Many Aussie fans have been calling for the Folau at centre for some time. He's a good fullback because he's got the aerial skills and has a much improved kicking game. But some fans want to see him more involved and closer to the action. Should be a good contest with the Brumbies midfield



  • Many Aussie fans have been calling for the Folau at centre for some time. He's a good fullback because he's got the aerial skills and has a much improved kicking game. But some fans want to see him more involved and closer to the action. Should be a good contest with the Brumbies midfield

    I always read that as coming from the Sydney league press who always act astounded that league players that move to union aren't put in positions where they continually get handed the ball.
    There is nothing stopping Folau from contributing more with ball in hand. Look at the amount of carries little DMac has for the Chiefs from fullback.



  • I always read that as coming from the Sydney league press who always act astounded that league players that move to union aren't put in positions where they continually get handed the ball.
    There is nothing stopping Folau from contributing more with ball in hand. Look at the amount of carries little DMac has for the Chiefs from fullback.

    Folau does carry the ball a lot though. 
     
    He's played 390 minutes this year and carried the ball 49 times
    Dmac has played 560 minutes and carried 73 times.
     
    So whilst MacKenzie does carry the ball slightly more, it's less than 1 extra carry per 80 minutes of footy.
     
     
    I prefer him at fullback personally. His best traits are as mentioned above, his aerial skillz and kicking game IMO.



  • I always read that as coming from the Sydney league press who always act astounded that league players that move to union aren't put in positions where they continually get handed the ball.
    There is nothing stopping Folau from contributing more with ball in hand. Look at the amount of carries little DMac has for the Chiefs from fullback.

    It's not so much his workrate with ball in hand, it's more they see a guy that is 6'4-6'5, tough and quick and he should be exploiting players in the midfield to set up other players around him or get past the advantage line.



  • I seem to recall similar cries of 'he doesn't get enough ball' for Tuqiri as well, along with the commentators creaming themselves when he did get the ball (and ran sideways evading tackles but making minimum metres).



  • It's not so much his workrate with ball in hand, it's more they see a guy that is 6'4-6'5, tough and quick and he should be exploiting players in the midfield to set up other players around him or get past the advantage line.

    So what's the fern verdict then?
    Do I sell him from my fantasy team and maybe grab that Cheetahs winger instead, or leave him and hope he busts some tackles in order to get close to his average fullback score?
    I'm neck and neck with a mate I am yet to beat, no room for error!



  • He should get a lot more tackles made at centre. Though I haven't done fantasy in a while so unsure how many points that is worth.



  • Tough game for Kellaway to get his first start - and at fullback too - more of a runner from what i've seen.Taavao pays the price for a poor season, Folau at centre to finally be tried after injury forced a backline reshuffle for Rebels game.

    His absence has nothing to do with his performance. Apparently, Ta'avao is not in the line-up because he's in Tonga for his grandmother's funeral.



  • His absence has nothing to do with his performance. Apparently, Ta'avao is not in the line-up because he's in Tonga for his grandmother's funeral.

    I see. In that case i'm assuming they've had a typo by naming Ta'avao on the bench?



  • I see. In that case i'm assuming they've had a typo by naming Ta'avao on the bench?

    The reason given for that is that he is expected to return to Sydney on game day.



  • So what's the fern verdict then?
    Do I sell him from my fantasy team and maybe grab that Cheetahs winger instead, or leave him and hope he busts some tackles in order to get close to his average fullback score?
    I'm neck and neck with a mate I am yet to beat, no room for error!

    I'm probably on the sell. I imagine tries score heavily in your fantasy comp and he's less likely to score them at centre.



  • I'm sticking with him. He usually breaks the first tackle and will get more offloads in midfield, so I'm hoping that makes up for the reduction in metres gained. (Also more tackles as NQ said)
     
    He's still better at centre than whatever outside back I can replace him with at this point.
     
    What FR game are you playing? I'm loving http://fantasyrugbydraft.com/



  • as we know, the mid-field is a hugely tough place to defend, so that will be a big change for him.



  • I'm torn about this. He's a big lad with skills who should get the ball more often, but his greatest strengths are his aerial ability and boot.  I think he plays best with more space too.



  • If I was the coach I'd play him at fullback for sure, but I think he still has value in Fantasy Rugby played out of position.



  • I'm sticking with him. He usually breaks the first tackle and will get more offloads in midfield, so I'm hoping that makes up for the reduction in metres gained. (Also more tackles as NQ said)
     
    He's still better at centre than whatever outside back I can replace him with at this point.
     
    What FR game are you playing? I'm loving http://fantasyrugbydraft.com/

    www.testrugby.com
    definitely still in two minds, surely I'll get a couple of tries from that Cheetahs winger against the sunwolves, home game for the Cheetahs too



  • www.testrugby.com
    definitely still in two minds, surely I'll get a couple of tries from that Cheetahs winger against the sunwolves, home game for the Cheetahs too

    Right. Yeah, I wouldn't have bought him if I'd known he'd be starting at centre, but now I have him I'll wait and see what happens.



  • Got the Brumbies to win this.



  • Just on the quiet this Cubelli bloke is looking like he is in the top 3 number 9s in the whole super rugby comp.



  • This game is end to end. But looking like the Tahs will run away with it unless the Brumbies can hatch a new game plan at half time. This open rugby is playing into Beale's and Folau's hands.



  • Brumbies hit back with one of their patented mauls.



  • jaysus that Folau head clash made me wince



  • What the hell was that call from the Brumbies scrum 5m out from the Waratshs line? They had a steady scrum with the ball under the second rows feet and were setting for a second push and the ref starts yelling use it, then blows it up and gives the scrum to tahs. I have never seen a scrum like that called to use it or let alone blown up. Terrible call.



  • What the hell was that call from the Brumbies scrum 5m out from the Waratshs line? They had a steady scrum with the ball under the second rows feet and were setting for a second push and the ref starts yelling use it, then blows it up and gives the scrum to tahs. I have never seen a scrum like that called to use it or let alone blown up. Terrible call.

    That's one of the new things: ball gets to 8s feet, meant to use it. Keep it in the second row, then push all you like



  • Ref is making favourable calls for the Tahs in the last ten minutes.



  • That's one of the new things: ball gets to 8s feet, meant to use it. Keep it in the second row, then push all you like

    It wasnt at his feet though, it was under the second row.



  • Oh well, a ref fucked up.



  • Butler is not bright.



  • The Brumbies coach knows his shit. That match was won due to a tactical change at half time. The Brumbies stopped belting the ball into the middle of the field for the Tahs back three to return it with interest. 
     
    They started kicking close to the sidelines or even finding touch. It was a decisive tactical change that paid dividends.



  • What the hell was that call from the Brumbies scrum 5m out from the Waratshs line? They had a steady scrum with the ball under the second rows feet and were setting for a second push and the ref starts yelling use it, then blows it up and gives the scrum to tahs. I have never seen a scrum like that called to use it or let alone blown up. Terrible call.

    No I disagree.  The scrum was stationary for a long period with the ball at the no. 8's feet.  Ref told him to use it and he didn't.  Starting the scrum moving is not an option in this scenario.   Ref made the correct call in accordance with the new law:

    20.10
    (d)
    When a team has the ball at the number 8’s feet, and is trying to move forward but is not succeeding in doing so, the referee will call “use-it” once the ball has been at the number 8’s feet for a reasonable amount of time (3-5 seconds). The team must then use the ball immediately.



  • Another terrible performance. I should expect it given the cattle we have taking the field.



  • No I disagree. The scrum was stationary for a long period with the ball at the no. 8's feet. Ref told him to use it and he didn't. Starting the scrum moving is not an option in this scenario. Ref made the correct call in accordance with the new law:

    Will have to wait to see if there is a replay but i didn't think it was at his feet.



  • Another terrible performance. I should expect it given the cattle we have taking the field.

    Terrible? Have to disagree. Thought we played pretty well in a high quality game. Brumbies pack just a bit too solid for us.



  • Terrible? Have to disagree. Thought we played pretty well in a high quality game. Brumbies pack just a bit too solid for us.I'm not sure we watched the same game. Poor handling, poor set piece execution, poor ability to string together phases leading to little fluidity in attack. Some bad defensive lapses from poor decisions. This is beyond the expectation of two good teams cancelling each other out in a typical Brumbies/ Waratahs/ Reds fixture.Our backrow was well beaten despite the Brumbies missing Pocock and Vaea. Dempsey in particular wasn't involved enough but miles more than Robinson who must surely leave the field after every scrum. Speaking of doing fuck all, why is it that Skelton still can't carry more and bend the line with his size? Kellaway had a poor debut. Carraro isn't a winger. Just really poor from the team.



  • The lack of impact from Skelton kind of shows just what a leveller and game for all sizes that Rugby Union is and what makes it so awesome.
     
    You can't just give a big dude the ball and expect rewards. You have to work together to give him the ball effectively



  • I'm not sure we watched the same game. Poor handling, poor set piece execution, poor ability to string together phases leading to little fluidity in attack. Some bad defensive lapses from poor decisions. This is beyond the expectation of two good teams cancelling each other out in a typical Brumbies/ Waratahs/ Reds fixture.
    Our backrow was well beaten despite the Brumbies missing Pocock and Vaea. Dempsey in particular wasn't involved enough but miles more than Robinson who must surely leave the field after every scrum. Speaking of doing fuck all, why is it that Skelton still can't carry more and bend the line with his size? Kellaway had a poor debut. Carraro isn't a winger. Just really poor from the team.

    Wow. Don't agree with any of that.
     
    Robinson went off after about 15 minutes with injury. Skelton had his best game of the season for mine, and was the only forward who actually made ground. Also threw a beautiful offload for the first try. I thought Kellaway was good on debut- soild under the high ball, no real errors and ran a beautiful line for Folau's try.
     
    I was out there and the mood in the crowd was great. Have also watched the replay and haven't changed my mind at all.
     
    But each to their own.



  • I guess that's part of the beauty of the game, not only can differing people play it, different people can take away a different perception.The lack of impact from Skelton kind of shows just what a leveller and game for all sizes that Rugby Union is and what makes it so awesome. You can't just give a big dude the ball and expect rewards. You have to work together to give him the ball effectivelyTrue, but if I've got Mumm playing as a lock, I want my tight lock to do more than a metre per carry, or more tackles than there are halves. Particularly if he weighs ~140kg. For some reason our workrate has been poor this season and we're not imposing ourselves. Doesn't help that our execution has failed us too.


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