Too horrific for words - Moko Rangitoheriri case



  • Everything about this case makes me want to vomit, not least of which that these two sacks of shit have been allowed to plead guilty to manslaughter, like the man's fucking cousin who did the same fucking thing.
     
    How reassuring to know WINZ and the police are still as fucking useless as ever when it comes to coordinating services. Eight interventions and the babies are still in the house? Disgusting.
     
    I hope they go to jail and receive the kind of treatment they dished out (the woman an early childhood teacher. I can't even.) And I hope they don't make it, so they aren't a further drain on taxpayer money.



  • I hope they both die painful slow deaths in prison. Nothing makes me more angry than this shit



  • . I can see why the govt have decided to can cyfs and start again, admitting that placing at risk kids with extended family is a dumb idea because ferals tend to have relatives who are ferals and exhibit much the same behaviour .
    Mokos sister is quite likely to become a statistic herself, an adult would be unable to deal with what she's been through.



  • I hope they both die painful slow deaths in prison. Nothing makes me more angry than this shit

    I hope they live long pointless soul crushing lives in prison . Plenty of time to reflect on what got them there and to think about what they are missing out on .



  • Mokey - I admit, I know nothing about the case you are referring to, but it is all too easy to call police and WINZ fucking useless but there may have been nothing they could have done. I see kids in environments they shouldn't be in every day I go to work. You do what you can within the framework you have at your disposal, but often that framework means you have one hand tied behind your back.



  • Mokey - I admit, I know nothing about the case you are referring to, but it is all too easy to call police and WINZ fucking useless but there may have been nothing they could have done. I see kids in environments they shouldn't be in every day I go to work. You do what you can within the framework you have at your disposal, but often that framework means you have one hand tied behind your back.

    Mrs Jeggas mum used to work with kids like this as part of the police-she wasn't a cop though. The first thing she said was why didn't the school have a system in place for at risk kids like the sister ?
    Also as usual the extended family have a bit to answer for I expect ,apart from the woman who now has custody of the sister who went public despite the fact she expects retaliation from the wider family .



  • I'm morally and intellectually against the death penalty, but when I see a case like this I'm tempted to have them removed from the face of the planet as I would a rabid dog, safe in the knowledge that what I'm disposing of is not in my species and of no benefit to anyone.



  • our old neighbours were an interesting family that always had CYFs kids with them...he was an unemployed ex-gang member, she was a stay at home mum (putting it nicely)....
     
    anyway, they had 3 or 4 kids of thier own, plus got paid for 2 or 3 more CYF kids, of which from time to time were whanau.
     
    Anywhoo, these kids were in this environment, that was not ideal to say the least. Used to hear screaming arguments at 2 in the morning (if they werent having a 36 hour party of course) had the cops turn up a number of times...both teen daughters now have kids, thier ex-gang member father has attacked on of the girls boy-friends (grand kids dad) after we sold I got call to jury service, turned out the case was for one of the daughters next door, now 16, but for a guy that was being tried for having sex with her when she was 12...now having lived next to them and seeing her actions, beahviour and the way the parents acted with the other kids toward sex, it wa snot surprising she was sexually active at this age, and was the guy I actually felt for as he ruined his life by having sex (over a period of a year) with this kid.
     
    But CYFs kept letting them look after kids.



  • I'm morally and intellectually against the death penalty, but when I see a case like this I'm tempted to have them removed from the face of the planet as I would a rabid dog, safe in the knowledge that what I'm disposing of is not in my species and of no benefit to anyone.

    Yep. Anyone who could inflict those kind of injuries on a little boy over and over, then make his 7 year old sister deliver the final kick and tell her she'd killed her baby brother, is not human and shouldn't be treated as such.



  • I hope they live long pointless soul crushing lives in prison . Plenty of time to reflect on what got them there and to think about what they are missing out on .

    Bogans are never guilty, just ask them



  • Bogans are never guilty, just ask them

    Not that I disagree , these were ferals not bogans.
    I asked a guy who was a prison guard if the stories about prison rape were true, he reckoned it was mostly consensual . A scumbag like the guy in this story is unlikely to have anyone on the outside either with money to spare of gives a shit about him so if he wants a phone card or something he's going to have to give someone a bj. I'd say that would make you dwell on your life choices .



  • It should be unbelievable, but it's not.
     
    I'm not really against the death penalty, because there's some things that are so heinous that it's deserved. I am against prisoners meting out "justice" because it's fairly likely that the person delivering the beatings is an equally despicable fucker who is getting his/her rocks off by doing so.
     
    Overall, I'm of the opinion that there should be prison cells that some people are put in - on their own - and then the door is bricked up behind them. Give them a bed, a toilet, a playstation and a slot that their food goes in and they never come out and no-one ever talks to them again.



  • Two bullets, cheaper for the taxpayers



  • done right, you could do it with 1, even cheaper.



  • Look if you're pro capital punishment be creative, I suggest a weedeater .



  • Look if you're pro capital punishment be creative, I suggest a weedeater .

    I would float a new daily show to Bravo.  Convict Wars, two will enter only one leaves, the survivor becomes the carryover champ.



  • I would float a new daily show to Bravo.  Convict Wars, two will enter only one leaves, the survivor becomes the carryover champ.

    A similar premise on an episode of Black Mirror. The episode is called "White Bear"
     
    On topic: If ever there was a cause to PROPERLY spend money, train and employ experts and remove this stain on society, it's this insidious treatment of kids that is beginning to slur NZ society.
     
    Never mind sugar tax, threats of terrorism or the prices of property in Auckland, how about tackling this shit and ridding it?



  • Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.
     
    Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?



  • Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.
     
    Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?

    These kind of sick fucks can't be redeemed.  If ever there was a case for capital punishment this is it



  • A similar premise on an episode of Black Mirror. The episode is called "White Bear"
    On topic: If ever there was a cause to PROPERLY spend money, train and employ experts and remove this stain on society, it's this insidious treatment of kids that is beginning to slur NZ society.
    Never mind sugar tax, threats of terrorism or the prices of property in Auckland, how about tackling this shit and ridding it?Beginning to slur NZ society? It's been plauging NZ society since forever - we have some of the worst domestic violence and youth suicide rates in the developed world. The problem has been largely ignored by the government (all of them over the years). The CYFs system is a fucking joke, and doesn't encourage "good" people to enter into it at all.
    A bloke I work with who is a real good bugger has been providing foster care for 3 kids. It hasn't been easy as the kids have absolutely no trust in anyone and are basically just waiting for the shit to hit the fan like it always has in their lives. The mum is a 20 yr old drug addict and the dad is a 50+ yr old feral bastard.
    When you provide foster care you don't just take on the kids, you take on their drop kick parents as well. Despite being not fit enough to provide care for their own children (and in this case not even fit enough to be in their company without supervision) they have equal say in everything in the childs life right down to what haircut they get.
    He is applying for permanent placement at the moment, which means he will lose most of the payments he currently gets for providing foster care which seems silly in itself, and he is currently working through everything with his lawyer to try and remove the rights of the parents so that their relationship with the children is more like extended family, not joint guardianship.
    The whole thing is messy as fuck and it takes a bloody special person to take it on - you can see why so many of these kids end up in fucking awful households. I will be interested to see what the government actually does with their big review, as it is about 40 years overdue at least.
    The problem with helping these kids is resources at the end of the day. If you don't have decent people wanting to care for them then there's fuck all the police or CYFs workers can do. If you see a kid in a shit situation what do you do? Take them out of that only for them to be put into a worse situation? It's pretty depressing stuff. My hope is if the government can improve the way the system works then more people will be willing to step in.



  • Should be an eye for any eye for these low lives.



  • Beginning to slur NZ society? It's been plauging NZ society since forever - we have some of the worst domestic violence and youth suicide rates in the developed world. The problem has been largely ignored by the government (all of them over the years). The CYFs system is a fucking joke, and doesn't encourage "good" people to enter into it at all.
    A bloke I work with who is a real good bugger has been providing foster care for 3 kids. It hasn't been easy as the kids have absolutely no trust in anyone and are basically just waiting for the shit to hit the fan like it always has in their lives. The mum is a 20 yr old drug addict and the dad is a 50+ yr old feral bastard.
    When you provide foster care you don't just take on the kids, you take on their drop kick parents as well. Despite being not fit enough to provide care for their own children (and in this case not even fit enough to be in their company without supervision) they have equal say in everything in the childs life right down to what haircut they get.
    He is applying for permanent placement at the moment, which means he will lose most of the payments he currently gets for providing foster care which seems silly in itself, and he is currently working through everything with his lawyer to try and remove the rights of the parents so that their relationship with the children is more like extended family, not joint guardianship.
    The whole thing is messy as fuck and it takes a bloody special person to take it on - you can see why so many of these kids end up in fucking awful households. I will be interested to see what the government actually does with their big review, as it is about 40 years overdue at least.
    The problem with helping these kids is resources at the end of the day. If you don't have decent people wanting to care for them then there's fuck all the police or CYFs workers can do. If you see a kid in a shit situation what do you do? Take them out of that only for them to be put into a worse situation? It's pretty depressing stuff. My hope is if the government can improve the way the system works then more people will be willing to step in.

    Informative post NQ, thanks
     
    I actually tried to downplay my original thoughts and euphemised with "slur" instead. I agree it's a ridiculous situation.
     
    After reading some other cases (god there are many) I had a local ask "tell me something about your country" - took all I could not to blurt out "oh we're clean and green and we kill our kids at an alarming rate"
     
    Would this issue be a platform for an election win?  Just surmising as for fucks sake, something must be done!



  • Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.
     
    Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?

    Apparently they pleaded guilty to manslaughter rather than stand trial for murder. Weak I know.
     
    Theres been a new approach to trying to stop the cycle these ferals are in , obviously its going to take a while to see the results http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-05-09/from-new-zealand-to-pittsburgh-a-moneyball-approach-to-helping-troubled-kids



  • That is a good initiative. Thanks for the link jegga.
     
    I guess it comes back to how and why the original systems were set up e.g. the dole was for people who were struggling to get work, but years ago it was just not cool to be on the dole, so you'd find work as soon as possible to get away from the stigma.
     
    Once it becomes generational welfare, its seen as a way of life. Kids aren't given anything else to aspire to.
     
    In our two countries, where education is still relatively cheap, its a shorter path to break that cycle for individuals, but at a societal level will take a long time as you say. 
     
    In certain demographics in the US - particularly black communities - it must look fucking impossible.



  • Good link thanks Jegga.
     
    Credit where it's due, that looks like a good effective idea



  • Not wishing to get into a "my cat's blacker than your cat" argument about such a dreadful issue but this problem is far from being a slur on NZ society alone, we also have our sickos. A recent case of a baby, Keegan Downer who was put into the care of a member of her extended family as her own mother was a smack addict. The poor kid died with 150 injuries including a badly fractured leg that had gone untreated for some time. she was 18 months old. The woman that did it showed no remorse whatsoever.
    Edit: Just been reading a bit more on the Moko case. Manslaughter FFS? How is that feasible?

    Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.
    That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them...



  • Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.
    That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them...

    It'd be quite nice if they were foolish enough to appeal their sentence and has happened recently got their terms extended .



  • Murder is hard to prove in these - the Crown has to show that the actions are deliberate with the intention of causing death, or that the actions were so reckless that a reasonable person would have known that a likely outcome was death. In cases of prolonged child abuse leading to death, actually being able to prove that the last actions meet those standards is hard.
    That said, the maximum sentence for manslaughter is still life imprisonment, so hopefully the judge throws the book at them...

    Yeah, I don't profess to have a good understanding of the Law. Things like this appear outrageous on face value but the Judge is working within the Laws that were created by the Government. If there is a loophole, then it is the Government that needs to close it.
     
    What you say about this case makes perfect sense, as infuriating as that is.



  • Going slightly off topic here but still on domestic violence I see Tony Veitch has raised hackles again.
    He quite probably had good intentions in writing a piece for the Herald about his own experience as a perp but the whole time I was reading it I was thinking that for all of his supposed counseling etc no one seems to have got through to him that he needs to be more concerned about the victim than himself. I see that he needs to look at himself etc but he never once apologises to or mentions his victim. There are lots of I's and my's in his statement.
    I see now that his victim's family have come out with a statement pointing this out. He has never apologised to his victim, not once according to them. Apparently he is also re-defining history to claim that the act he was convicted of was a one-off occurrence when in reality it was the one occurrence that the prosecution carried through with and the problem was a pattern of violence.
    I'm not getting at him personally, just think this is an interesting insight to the situation.



  • bloody stupid of him to bring it to light again. I haven't read it but even if he said absolutely everything that he should have then he'd still be taken to task for it as it will never be enough and deservedly so.



  • Didn't Veitch write something similar 6 months back?



  • Veitch is revolting. Everything he does is about the PR. If he actually gave a shit about the victim, he would have apologised to HER not the fucking public. And wouldn't keep dragging up the old muck in the press so her and her family have to keep reliving it.
     
    He's just another me me me media whore. That whole article is turning himself into the victim.
     
    Kudos to the dad for writing that article in response, and adding a few facts to the mix.



  • Veitch is revolting. Everything he does is about the PR. If he actually gave a shit about the victim, he would have apologised to HER not the fucking public. And wouldn't keep dragging up the old muck in the press so her and her family have to keep reliving it.
    He's just another me me me media whore. That whole article is turning himself into the victim.
    Kudos to the dad for writing that article in response, and adding a few facts to the mix.

    Kudos to the dad for not marching around to Veitch's place and giving the prick a hiding and throwing him down a set of stairs ( I'm sure he wishes he could tho)
    As a father to 3 daughters I'd find that very hard not to do if a piece of shit like that did that to my girls.



  • Didn't Veitch write something similar 6 months back?

    Think he said something on air kind of a throw away bit. Basically again sort of portraying himself as some kind of victim
    Rightly so he was put in his place.



  • I find Veitch odious. There was a thread about ferners being at parties with TV "stars". I went to one with Veitch and other Auckland Glitterati years and years ago and thought him to be a posturing twat. I'd come from overseas and had no idea who he was. But whatever
     
    A well reasoned letter from the woman in the Veitch incident's father in stuff I thought



  • the comment he made a few months back was about the 'poisonous relationship' he was in that ended publically...
     
    poor choice of words in the headline



  • It should be unbelievable, but it's not.
     
    I'm not really against the death penalty, because there's some things that are so heinous that it's deserved. I am against prisoners meting out "justice" because it's fairly likely that the person delivering the beatings is an equally despicable fucker who is getting his/her rocks off by doing so.
     
    Overall, I'm of the opinion that there should be prison cells that some people are put in - on their own - and then the door is bricked up behind them. Give them a bed, a toilet, a playstation and a slot that their food goes in and they never come out and no-one ever talks to them again.

    But no controller for the playstation... they can have a monitor and games for it though.



  • I find Veitch odious. There was a thread about ferners being at parties with TV "stars". I went to one with Veitch and other Auckland Glitterati years and years ago and thought him to be a posturing twat. I'd come from overseas and had no idea who he was. But whatever
     
    A well reasoned letter from the woman in the Veitch incident's father in stuff I thought

    I met him many years ago in Queenstown at winter festival, for some reason I was at the same dinner table with him and he was just an utter piston wristed gibbon (I think this was back in his commercial radio days) so I tried to avoid listening to him from then onward.



  • Yup. My dad has known Peter Williams for a long time (him and Mum taught with Peter's parents) so when I was at Uni, Peter gave me a tour around TVNZ, and said anytime I needed a hand with media stuff, to give him a yell (he really is a nice, friendly guy). Anyhoo, I had to write a feature in my third year, and Peter agreed to let me profile him. Interviewed him, and some of his colleagues (including Mike McRoberts lol). Next thing I know, Veitch barrels on up and takes over, talking a mile a minute about himself, with a few refs to Peter.
     
    He's always been a thoroughly full of shit twatface.



  • Add me to the list of people who thinks he is a dick......and that was before the incident let alone afterwards when he went down about as far down the ladder as is possible. I've always had issues with Sports "personalities" trying to be too matey with the players....
     
    I also hate people who beat women.


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