Too horrific for words - Moko Rangitoheriri case
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All of these protests against the courts for "justice for Moko" are mis-directed. <br><br>
- the court doesn't make the law, parliament does so that's where the protest should be. <br><br>
- the attorney general did what he could with the current laws to ensure these two fuckwits got put away for good (they won't be released). <br><br>
- the law is not the cause of the systemic child abuse in NZ. It's not even the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. What the hell makes people think if we changed the law to make it easier to charge murder in this specific case that Moko would still be alive? Those ferals wouldn't have the slightest idea about law.<br><br>
The problem with cases like this is the horrific child abuse that occurs every day in NZ. Laws won't fix that. NZ society as a whole has a serious problem that needs to be addressed. There's no silver bullet, but I would hope that this case puts focus on the wide spread child abuse and domestic violence rather then a couple of specific laws - that's what we need to be talking about right now.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="592291" data-time="1467008452"><p>All of these protests against the courts for "justice for Moko" are mis-directed. <br><br>
- the court doesn't make the law, parliament does so that's where the protest should be. <br><br>
- the attorney general did what he could with the current laws to ensure these two fuckwits got put away for good (they won't be released). <br><br>
- the law is not the cause of the systemic child abuse in NZ. It's not even the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. What the hell makes people think if we changed the law to make it easier to charge murder in this specific case that Moko would still be alive? Those ferals wouldn't have the slightest idea about law.<br><br>
The problem with cases like this is the horrific child abuse that occurs every day in NZ. Laws won't fix that. NZ society as a whole has a serious problem that needs to be addressed. There's no silver bullet, but I would hope that this case puts focus on the wide spread child abuse and domestic violence rather then a couple of specific laws - that's what we need to he talking about right now.</p></blockquote>
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Where Gun culture and gun supply is Americas great burden and national shame, how we treat our kids is ours.<br><br>
Internationally we are thought of as a warm, kind and caring country. So why do we treat our kids so awefully.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="592222" data-time="1466992816">
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<p>Here's a case in the U.K that rivals the Moko murder.<br><br>
This guy is easily the worse piece of shit on the planet<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://nzh.tw/11663958">http://nzh.tw/11663958</a><br><br>
In case you had followed the case (UK ferners would have heard about it)<br>
He was charged for assaulting his little girl a few years ago but cried innocent. Some reason his conviction was over turned and went on a full pr exercise, tv shows the works. Said he loved his daughter he would never harm her. Was then given custody back, a massive fatal mistake. Other family members fought to stop him, seems they didn't believe the bs. Even the poor little thing begged not too be returned to him.</p>
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<p>So often in these cases it is a failure of social services (bloody hard job to do mind) but in this case the judge ruled against the advice (and pleading) of he social services, the police and the child's grandfather, who left the judge with the chilling words "You will have blood on your hands". 18 months alter this came to pass. Sad and shocking.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="592315" data-time="1467014411">
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<p>Where Gun culture and gun supply is Americas great burden and national shame, how we treat our kids is ours.<br><br>
Internationally we are thought of as a warm, kind and caring country. <strong>So why do we treat our kids so awefully.</strong></p>
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<p>I didn't realise this was such problem for NZ. Is it settled mainly on any particular sub-set of NZ society or is it pretty general?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="592247" data-time="1466999264">
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<p>Do you guys ( and girl ) think this sort of thing resonates more if you have kids yourself ? interested to hear viewpoints. For whatever reason I've found myself getting updates on the James Bulgar case over the years, I have vivid memories of the fury I felt when I was living in London doing the good old Kiwi OE and hearing about how one of the killers was allowed out to go to football games, had a PlayStation etc. I also remember details of how they killed him and what they actually did to end the poor kids life, Google it if you want, I'm not gonna bring myself to actually write it down.</p>
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<p>When reading about the stuff on the papers on the tube in London I wasn't a Dad, had no intention of ever being one truth be told but even then it still broke my heart. However this feeling was multiplied when I read details of their "rehabilitation", this would have been around 2010 from memory as MN5 the elder who turned 8 yesterday was 2. I put myself in the position of JBs mother, turning her back for a few moments and losing her little man in the mall, we've all been there but what are the chances that two fucken psycho KIDS of ten years of age would grab the boy and brutally murder him ?</p>
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<p>You would NEVER forgive yourself as a parent.</p>
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<p>and I think it was about 2003/2004 when they looking at sending one of those boys out to NZ, Aus, Canada to start a new life where they wouldnt be recognized and vilified at every turn...also think it was the boy of the 2 who apparently had little remorse for what they did.</p>
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<p>Yeah if anyone hurt your kid the way you hear some of the things in the media, you would struggle to contain most normal people and keep them out of prison themselves, like that bloke that chased that dude 400m and beat him to death...I can understand why, but he had an awful long time to think about the consequences of his actions before embarking on handing out his justice...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="592325" data-time="1467016131">
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<p>I didn't realise this was such problem for NZ. Is it settled mainly on any particular sub-set of NZ society or is it pretty general?</p>
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<p>It's not pretty general to be honest.</p>
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<p><img src="http://www.web2carz.com/images/articles/201305/canoworms_1368217657_600x275.jpg" alt="canoworms_1368217657_600x275.jpg"></p> -
OK Jegga thanks. I'll close off this line of questioning.
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/faces-of-innocents/81530539/now-child-abuse-is-at-the-front-of-our-minds-let-it-remain-there'>Now child abuse is at the front of our minds let it remain there</a></p>
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<p>Demonstrators protesting the death of Moko Rangitoheriri raised signs saying: "Not one child more."</p>
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<div>David Haerewa, 45, and Tania Shailer, 26, subjected the three-year-old to despicable cruelty and torture before his death in August last year.</div>
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<div>At least five children have died in suspicious circumstances since then. Don't feel bad if you can't recall their names.</div>
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<div>Such is the hopelessness of New Zealand's problem with killing its kids.</div>
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<div>As part of Faces of Innocents, a major investigation, Stuff last year built the first public database of every child known to have died of abuse, maltreatment, or neglect in New Zealand since 1992.</div>
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<div><strong>It contains the names of more than 200 children, aged 0-14.</strong></div>
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<div>It's well-known this country remains one of the most dangerous in the developed world in which to grow up, despite attempts from successive governments to stem the tide.</div>
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<div><strong>A child is admitted to hospital every second day suffering from inflicted injuries, including burns, broken bones, and head wounds.</strong></div>
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<div>According to our data, the most common cause of death for a child is head injury. Most often they die at the hands of men – a high proportion being de facto fathers. The average age of a child killed is about three years old. Moko's age.</div>
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<div>What's upsetting is the number of cases which have barely raised a blip in the public consciousness.</div>
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<div>While Moko's name will be remembered alongside James Whakaruru, Nia Glassie, and Cris and Cru Kahui, there are others which aren't so easily called to mind, such as Duwayne Pailegutu from Nelson, Kelly McRoberts from Timaru, or Mereana Edmonds from Hamilton.</div>
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<div>No one marched for them.</div>
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<div>In September last year the country was shocked by a major report into the workings of Child, Youth and Family (CYF) showing a cycle of continued abuse and re-victimisation.</div>
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<div>As a result Social Development Minister Anne Tolley called for a "transformational change".</div>
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<div>CYF has been restructured at least 14 times since its inception. There have been tens of reviews showing the agency's ineffectiveness and hundreds of broken promises.</div>
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<div>Maybe this time will be different. Maybe.</div>
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<div>There's evidence to suggest high profile reviews of individual deaths can even be counter-productive, in that they reduce morale in protection agencies and drive them into "unhelpfully defensive practices", New Zealand's first Children's Commissioner Ian Hassall said.</div>
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<div>Others say we need to be quicker to report signs of child abuse. <strong>However complaints are streaming in so fast police are opening 32 child protection cases a day.</strong></div>
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<div>What if sentences were harsher? Shailer and Haerewa were each jailed for 17 years, the longest sentences imposed in New Zealand for the manslaughter of a child, but it was the reduction in charges from murder to manslaughter which caused the public to rally in anger.</div>
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<div>It was heartening to see so many people braving the weather on Monday taking a stand against child abuse. But where's the anger for kids like Southland toddler Bea Daleon? Her alleged killer was allowed to travel home to the Philippines and doesn't appear to be coming back.</div>
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<div>We're quick to blame the justice system and government agencies when another battered little body ends up in a morgue. The state can't be in every home.</div>
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<div>Children's Commissioner Dr Russell Wills told us the country's high levels of family violence and economic inequality contribute to child deaths. </div>
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<div>When Moko's uncle Anthony Paki appeared outside the High Court in Rotorua following Monday's sentencing, he held up his fist and said: "Don't raise this."</div>
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<div>Only through a concerted effort from society can we begin to address these issues and ultimately save lives. If a child can't be protected by their caregivers they become our responsibility.</div>
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<div>We all need to address our attitudes towards social harms or nothing will change.</div>
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<div>Anger for Moko is good but let's make the most of it. Let's keep the issue at the forefront of public consciousness.</div>
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<div>And let's just hope the desire for change isn't as short-lived as these kids' lives.</div>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/81846804/otago-man-jailed-for-shaking-and-disabling-baby-daughter'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/81846804/otago-man-jailed-for-shaking-and-disabling-baby-daughter</a></p>
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<p>At what stage do these fucken ferals actually realize children are extremely fragile when they are that age ?......Some of my happiest memories with my boys as babies are of a bit of PS3 with them on my lap and making sure I didn't move too much and wake them. Fuck me I despair at some people in the world.</p>
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<p>Just over two years.........wow......way to go NZ justice system.</p> -
<div>The problem is that NZ is not prepared to actually address the various elephants in the room with this.</div>
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<div>1/Race - Maori are way over represented in these stats. But you get white urbanites with cultural guilt and politicians squashng any real discussion on it. There is is of course many iwi, kaumatua and Maori community groups who know the issue and do more than anyone else!</div>
<div>2/ Women are heavily involved in these cases, yet we have a domestic abuse campaign that focuses nearly entirely on males. It is doesn't need to be 50/50, but society needs to accept that nowadays females can be just as brutal and callous as any man. And people need to be protected from others regardless of gender.</div>
<div>3/ We need to look at the warning signs earlier and stop pandering to them. Example. Food in schools, complete and utter nonsense. Feeding your child should be every single parents number ONE priority bar none. Every single parent in NZ gets enough money to feed their children. Every single one. They are choosing to not feed their children. That is child abuse. Any decent parent would go hungry before they dont feed their own child. But instead we have the bleating about hungry kids and allowing child abuse by parking an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.. by feeding kids at school! Now... we can feed them, but it needs to be noted and after just a few instances, be treated as child abuse. If a parent cares enough to pack a solid lunch for their child every day, feed them a good breakfast.. they probably care enough to make sure they are not beaten to death. If they dont care enough to feed their child.... chances are they are a shit parent. And without exception every person who murders a child is a shit parent.</div>
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<div>As for the protests, they mean squat. Oh woopdy fucking doo.. people walked down the street lamenting a murdered child, means nothing except to make themselves superior and more caring. Fuck off. I have a million times more respect for those iwi groups and community groups that actually work on this issue every day against huge odds. </div>
<div>Until NZ accepts that there are indicators and some of those indicators fly in the face of the image we hold of ourselves as a country.. these deaths will keep coming. All the heartfelt marches wont change anything. You think an abusive parent is going to look at those and say.. shit better change my ways? Do people who watch that think to themselves.. 'gee I was on the fence but now I am really against child abuse!'?</div>
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<div>But not much will change, as to address any of these issue would be forcing people to look at a NZ that they dont want to see. </div> -
<p>Couldn't agree more with BSG's post. One of the things that really shits me is those in govt or high positions who bleat about feeding hungry kids. There should be NO hungry kids in this country. We have such a comprehensive welfare system - there is ZERO excuse for a wee boy or girl to ever have an empty tummy. If they consistently do, then they should be removed from the home and the shit fucking parents severely penalised.</p>
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<p>I also have huge respect for the non-govt groups who actually get in and get their hands dirty. They known damned well where the problem families live, and anything they can do at grassroots level is a great thing. But they need funding. And resources. And the education about babies and kids and parenting needs to happen early.</p>
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<p>Also agree that protests on this issue are social self back patting. It achieves precisely nothing - those who need to know, already do. Those who abuse won't stop cos some people walk the streets for an hour. It is about all communities making it not in the slightest bit ok for kids to get bashed. It's about the village it takes to raise a kid, stepping in not walking by.</p>
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<p>The culture of silence, and protecting the scum who indulge in domestic violence does jack shit for stopping it. And it is long, LONG past time for the tip-toeing around the racial facts.</p>
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<p>Doing nothing because the problem is so big, or because it is risky = heaps more children being murdered. The way to start the toughest journey is to take the first step. Strategies can be modified, solutions updated. But communities owe it to the babies to TRY, not fucking wring their hands and say oh dear, isn't it awful.</p> -
<p>Yep, agree with what the Baron is saying for once too.</p>
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<p>My potential father in law is great to yarn to about this sort of stuff, he ( Maori ) loves to whinge about "his fucken people trying to use that race card shit" when they get in trouble.</p>
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<p>Me ? all I do when I read stuff like that is hug my little boys that much tighter and be grateful that they have a loving caring family network around them......also make them realize how lucky they really are ( which is of course impossible for 6 and 8 year olds to understand )</p> -
<p>i agree with most of what the baron says, although i think it a little odd to want targeting by race but disapprove of it being done by gender when both are disproportionately represented.</p>
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<p>i also disagree that protest etc is pointless, and to say that it won't change an abusive parents behaviour misses the point entirely.</p>
<p>if you combine baron's point on being firmer re taking kids away from negligent parents, and what mokey is saying re funding being required for those on the front line, you have a valid thing to march/protest about. that is, to let the politicians know it is an issue that people care about (or more realistically will get the self-serving fluffybunnies votes) if they do something about it - and thereby get policy decisions made which increase funding and change the rules/protocols around getting kids out of bad situations. that would be helpful.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="594700" data-time="1467873629">
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<p>i agree with most of what the baron says, <strong>although i think it a little odd to want targeting by race but disapprove of it being done by gender when both are disproportionately represented.</strong></p>
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<p>i also disagree that protest etc is pointless, and to say that it won't change an abusive parents behaviour misses the point entirely.</p>
<p>if you combine baron's point on being firmer re taking kids away from negligent parents, and what mokey is saying re funding being required for those on the front line, you have a valid thing to march/protest about. that is, to let the politicians know it is an issue that people care about (or more realistically will get the self-serving fluffybunnys votes) if they do something about it - and thereby get policy decisions made which increase funding and change the rules/protocols around getting kids out of bad situations. that would be helpful.</p>
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<p>S'funny. I took Baron's post to mean that it should be targeted proportionately - or at least acknowledged and that while males are more represented than females it is not as exclusive as the targeting would suggest.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="594748" data-time="1467886519">
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<p>S'funny. I took Baron's post to mean that it should be targeted proportionately - or at least acknowledged and that while males are more represented than females it is not as exclusive as the targeting would suggest.</p>
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<p>ah true. would be interesting to see the stats on females, i don't think i have before.</p>
<p>as for maori over-representation, that is a sad fact, but i am not sure it is necessarily helpful to go around saying it. those involved in the field know, and they are targeting their response.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="594671" data-time="1467864176">
<div><br><p>I also have huge respect for the non-govt groups who actually get in and get their hands dirty. They known damned well where the problem families live, and anything they can do at grassroots level is a great thing. <strong><em>But they need funding. And resources.</em></strong> And the education about babies and kids and parenting needs to happen early.</p>
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<p>That's the factor thats always missed in these discussions.</p>
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<p>I totally buy the idea that we should be flagging kids with signs that their home life is shit & then assigning special care to them & ultimately removing them from that environment.</p>
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<p>But that involves a well trained, well paid teaching group told to do that from kindy right thru, or a specialist in each school who's (well paid) role is to look after kids welfare. And then a well paid well paid social worker with the time needed to focus on identified at risk kids. And then a well funded, well supported foster care set up to support the kids removed from their parents.</p>
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<p>Do we have that? Nope, you drop a kid in the system in NZ now their chances of being any less fucked up than if they stayed with their retard parents are not great. Do we have the political will to crank up taxes 2% to pay for that? Hell no. Do we have a political system OK with tax now - gain in 20 years? Do we fuck. The Scandies very much do, and their taxes are high. We don't want that.</p>
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<p>It's incredibly hard to get people to pay so other people kids don't get beat. It's like paying for better quality cops in an area you don't live in. <em>In theory</em> they will do anything to stop it. They'll march, click "like" on FB, you name it they are on board.</p>
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<p>Except paying for it.</p> -
<p>I hear what you say Gollum and it rings true. I'd baulk at higher taxes if my Government said they were needed to raise them to protect kids at risk, purely because I don't trust the bastards not to piss the money away elsewhere. Getting the money ought to be quite easy. Having the political will to face such a problem and then initiate the programme without the money getting siphoned off elsewhere is quite another matter.</p>