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I'm setting myself to get smacked down here ... but am I showing my old man whiteness in thinking that you're trying just a little too hard using a Maori name when you're not.
I think it's a lovely (middle) name but it just seems a little too ... ummm ... dunno ... woke.
Am I a racist arsehole?
Just reminds me of looneys like the Bains who used Maori names because they were somehow ... I dunno ... hippy.
Debating long and hard about posting this.
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@louis said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
@mariner4life Childless women (whether unable to have kids or just not wanting them) get shit every damned day. (Policies etc aside) look at the abuse Helen Clark copped for it. You're told only mothers know how to love/care/show empathy or compassion. That if the world was run by mothers, there would be no issues blah blah wank wank. That is the 'most important' job. That working women should be at home with the kids, not in the office or wherever. What is the first question a newlywed couple gets asked? When are you having kids. Ditto if you have one. When are you having the next? And it comes from all ages, men and women. it gets used as an insult. No kids? Gosh she must be a raving butch or whatever. I bet she HATES kids. So unfeminine. Unnatural. Look at the responses and hate that have appeared on this forum around the topic of abortion.
People aren't nearly as modern and progressive as they think they are.
Agree with quite a bit of that, especially the last sentence. It's especially cruel when people get shit for not having kids when they've tried, but actually can't for whatever reason.
As much as I loathe Adern's politics and can't stand the sight of her and her twat partner, she's 37, so they've obviously been trying for a while and wouldn't have had the luxury of holding off until after the election. At that age, you've got a pretty slim chance of getting pregnant, for the first time anyway.
Even though it's a biological urge, not everyone wants kids and it's a fact some people regret having them and actually hate their kids.
I agree with mariner4life that if a woman wants to have a child, she should have support and not have her career affected, but I guess having a child and then a year or two out can have an impact. Two of the women in my team work less than 5 days a week and one has both kids at school, so why the fuck does she need a day at home? Lifestyle. She earns more than her husband too. I've heard of guys saying they'd like to be a stay-at-home dad and the wife has said, like fuck you are! It probably has a lot to do with how we're socialised and there's no reason women can't be the one earning more in a relationship, but do women really respect men that stay at home? Genuine question.
In the end, it's whatever works for each couple.
That is a good question. What chance does a divorced/separated stay-at-home dad have in attracting a "top quality" partner? Sweet fa I'd imagine.
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@jc said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
@no-quarter said in NZ Politics:
@mariner4life said in NZ Politics:
@no-quarter said in NZ Politics:
taking months off is not really an option
this is going to open me for attack but
why not? Having kids is important. smart, successful people having kids is important. Why should we put in barriers that stop this?
I have battled to see why people give a shit about this. But, i have tried to look at it with someone elses eyes. A woman in a very high position having a kid and keeping her job is a massive deal to a lot of people who may have missed out on the same thing due to prevailing attitudes.
We in the west are addicted to work. And we have allowed work to take over our lives in larger and larger ways. And it gets worse and worse as we stay more and more connected.
That's a good take, I don't really have a retort to that. Having kids is infinitely more meaningful than any job you can do. Still think it could be planned a bit better, but fair enough.
Oh fuck off.
It's OK Mokey, you can come over here with the other childless people and drown your sorrows whilst we all talk about how empty and pointless our lives are.
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That is a good question. What chance does a divorced/separated stay-at-home dad have in attracting a "top quality" partner? Sweet fa I'd imagine.
Ha, that has been me. Mainly single since the end of my marriage.
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@mokey said in NZ Politics:
I'm happy that Jacinda and baby Neve are well, let's get the next stage of several mag covers out of the way and move on...but bloody hell, Clarke, what was with the fucking grey cardie. DUDE.
Clarke currently has the most punchable face in the world.
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@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
@no-quarter said in NZ Politics:
@mariner4life said in NZ Politics:
@no-quarter said in NZ Politics:
taking months off is not really an option
this is going to open me for attack but
why not? Having kids is important. smart, successful people having kids is important. Why should we put in barriers that stop this?
I have battled to see why people give a shit about this. But, i have tried to look at it with someone elses eyes. A woman in a very high position having a kid and keeping her job is a massive deal to a lot of people who may have missed out on the same thing due to prevailing attitudes.
We in the west are addicted to work. And we have allowed work to take over our lives in larger and larger ways. And it gets worse and worse as we stay more and more connected.
That's a good take, I don't really have a retort to that. Having kids is infinitely more meaningful than any job you can do. Still think it could be planned a bit better, but fair enough.
Oh fuck off.
It's OK Mokey, you can come over here with the other childless people and drown your sorrows whilst we all talk about how empty and pointless our lives are.
Where’s the one 50 years from now showing a childless couple with no one to care for them or visit them as they go through their golden years?
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@virgil Having kids is no guarantee of not being lonely in old age. Hopefully a person has been decent and friendly enough to build relationships with people they've actually chosen to associate with over his/her lifetime rather than breeding to fill the void.
To me this further illustrates that we have to live by our own rules. If you want kids and are the type of person that says family is No.1 etc., then all power to you. If you don't, then don't have them and fuck what everybody else says.
I'm not close to my family and my wife and I don't have kids. Unexplained infertility in our case basically means we started too late - the chance of getting pregnant rapidly declines even after 25-30. I'm well over it, but my wife has the odd cry when a friend announces a 2nd or 3rd child, which is quite heart breaking to see. But, we focus on what we have rather than what we don't have.
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@louis Yep. I always find the 'have kids so you won't be lonely in your old age' to be the most ridiculous statement. Lots of parents and kids don't get on. Or kids move countries for work etc. And this assumption that childless couples have no friends or neighbours or godchildren or neices/nephews...come on...
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So my comment that kicked all this off, that having a kid is infinitely more meaningful than any job, I still stand by that. If you think that a job - any job - is more meaningful then raising a child then you are kidding yourself, plain and simple.
This is obvious when you ask a simple question - would you rather lose your child or your job.
Now that comment was taken and intepreted as "the only way to have meaning in your life is through kids". I never said that, as that would be a stupid thing to say.
Because you could also ask the question - would you rather lose your wife/partner/nephew/neice/any other loved one or your job. And again the answer is obvious.
But the fact remains that for a large portion of the population, their kids are and always will be the biggest source of meaning in their lives by miles. Again, doesn't mean you can't have meaning in your life without kids, but it is a fact which is why I could understand and agree with @mariner4life's post about kids not impacting a woman's career. We shouldn't force people to put their job ahead of every other aspect of their life.
To provide another POV on the expectations on women today - I know women who have chosen to be stay at home mums when their kids are young. And they also cop it from everywhere, with people giving them a hard time for not sticking their kids into Day Care and getting a job. That they are "perpetuating harmful stereotypes" about women in society, that they have "internalised misogyny".
Another prevelant opinion is giving women a hard time if they have kids too young. My wife was 24 when she got pregnant with our first child - biologically the perfect age - but according to many she was "throwing her life away".
Of course the best answer to anyone sticking their nose in and and telling you what you should be doing is to tell them to shove their opinions where the sun don't shine.
But it's worth looking at this from both sides, and from my experience most of these types of comments come from other women. The role of both men and women in society has radically changed in the past 50-100 years, after 200,000 odd years of them being pretty well defined.
It's probably inevitible that these discussions arise as a result of that. "Live and let live" is the best answer here, but that's not human nature.
Not sure where I am going with this now, other than to say live your life however the fuck you want, and if people have a problem with it or disagree with your choices, who cares. The older I get the less I give the slightest bit of a fuck about what people think of me.
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@mokey my elderly neighbour (who is awesome) only one of his kids are really interested in him, he spends the winter in Aus, 45 mins from one of his kids and 2 grandkids, and last year he only got to see his grand kids once in the 4 months he was there.
He takes us out on his boat, I have beers with him (I look after his place while he's away) and he has some amazing stories. One time after a few whiskies, he was telling me he worked (as a consultant) on a few of the more high profile police cases in the 70s and 80s and saw some stuff people in his line of work shouldn't get to see, and it obviously still affects him.
My kids see him more than their own Grandparents (one set in Dargaville and the other in UK) he has taught TR Jnr how to play chess and the kids love going to see him.
@No-Quarter we came back form the UK to live in NZ solely for the reason my wofe would be a stay at home mum, which she did until my daughter started school...then I made her get a real job seriously though, most days she still only works 9-3 so we don't have to pay extortionate after school care fees, but in holidays we use our leave to look after them (ungrateful little monsters)
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@mikedogz said in NZ Politics:
That is a good question. What chance does a divorced/separated stay-at-home dad have in attracting a "top quality" partner? Sweet fa I'd imagine.
Ha, that has been me. Mainly single since the end of my marriage.
I'm sure you're a great catch, but I bet the problem is getting an "interview" in the first place. I'm back doing the whole dating thing and the first question is invariably always "what do you do".
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@louis I saw a tweet praising the cardie. Saying it meant he was comfortable in his masculinity, ready to be a stay at home dad, didn't care what other people thought blah blah blah. All I cold think was dude, Jacinda had the baby and looks nice, because it's a leader of the country holding newborn pic that will go around the world, and you look like the grizzled drunk from Father Ted.
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@no-quarter said in NZ Politics:
To provide another POV on the expectations on women today - I know women who have chosen to be stay at home mums when their kids are young. And they also cop it from everywhere, with people giving them a hard time for not sticking their kids into Day Care and getting a job. That they are "perpetuating harmful stereotypes" about women in society, that they have "internalised misogyny".
I've never come across this. Who are the people they cop it from? Friends? Family? On forums? I'm glad I don't know these types of people.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in NZ Politics:
@mikedogz said in NZ Politics:
That is a good question. What chance does a divorced/separated stay-at-home dad have in attracting a "top quality" partner? Sweet fa I'd imagine.
Ha, that has been me. Mainly single since the end of my marriage.
I'm sure you're a great catch, but I bet the problem is getting an "interview" in the first place. I'm back doing the whole dating thing and the first question is invariably always "what do you do".
Good luck back out there.
God help her if she or members of her family are fans of the new Star Wars movies...
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