NZ Politics



  • Simon Bridges is such a pile of trash. Gleefully sticking the knife in while conveniently having amnesia re his own complete lack of popularity in the country and as leader.

    Nats have a huge amount of rebuilding to do. Judith prob won't survive a leadership challenge, but new person will soon find that it's way easier to be the one shooting poison arrows than being in charge.



  • @nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:

    I'm not quite sure what Gerry Brownlee really offers. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

    Someone for Ian Foster to fat shame ?



  • @Mokey said in NZ Politics:

    Simon Bridges is such a pile of trash. Gleefully sticking the knife in while conveniently having amnesia re his own complete lack of popularity in the country and as leader.

    Nats have a huge amount of rebuilding to do. Judith prob won't survive a leadership challenge, but new person will soon find that it's way easier to be the one shooting poison arrows than being in charge.

    The rot starting coming to the surface with the Jamie Lee Ross fiasco. Thank fuck we won’t be seeing any of him or his 5G hating covid conspiracy mate what’s his name.

    The irony can’t be lost on poor whinny, without him Cindy wouldn’t be where she is now.
    Think he’s long overdue to be put out to pasture as wel.

    Also what the fuck were they on at Green Party HQ lastnight? That screaming...



  • @Mokey said in NZ Politics:

    Simon Bridges is such a pile of trash. Gleefully sticking the knife in while conveniently having amnesia re his own complete lack of popularity in the country and as leader.

    Nats have a huge amount of rebuilding to do. Judith prob won't survive a leadership challenge, but new person will soon find that it's way easier to be the one shooting poison arrows than being in charge.

    If Bridges had stayed they would have done even worse. I hope many of the old guard leave now, and I think, as one of the better performing opposition MPs, that Judith stays as leader for now. You are right, the Nats need a major overhaul. If they continue to backbite they will be stuck in this hole. Labour will have a tough job but a 3rd term is plausible with the opposition in such disarray. Of course they might not have covid19 to bail them out next time and we will see how far Jacindamania will take them



  • Well done Labour, remarkable result. Philosophically I think centralisation of control doesn't lead to good outcomes, but in a healthy democracy like ours people get to decide what our community gets.

    Now there's a mandate, it's time for delivery. Bring on infrastructure, smart protection for disadvantaged and a healthy diverse society. I suspect we'll see Labour cleave to the middle, but you just never know.

    National need to go away and regroup, cut out a whole lot of dead wood (Gerry, Nick, looking at you lads), and start looking for some good fresh talent. 2002 led to Key, Joyce, Ryall, Power. God knows they need some quality in that caucus now, it's disintegrating.



  • @Godder Did your candidate win?



  • @canefan exactly. The dude who couldn't even poll in double digits when it came to preferred pm can fuck off with his leadership bitching.

    First thing Nats need to do (other than ditch the dead wood) is sort out the sabotaging from within. No more rumblings or leaks or public hit jobs.



  • @nzzp huge power vacuum. And Bridges seems like a Cunliffe level toxic influence who will hinder the rebuild with his unrealised visions of grandeur. The infighting will have to stop and they need to get together. But its looking tough right now



  • Helen Clark in the video below, stated something that gave me a jolt, but I guess this has been discussed and accepted in NZ.

    She said that the previous international tourism and overseas student " export" revenue, about 25% of total export income, is gone and will never come back. So it's up to this government to support new industry across sectors to make up those losses.

    I suppose you guys knew this but it has been still a shock to learn that international tourism and students is no longer a considered option for nz.

    "There's clearly no return for the kind of international tourism or student numbers that we had"

    and "because the old economy, we're not going to see again"

    That's a bit to get my tiny head around🤔

    After a minute:

    Good to see a politician refer to her rivals in a complimentary manner for a change



  • @Siam no way to tap into the overseas student market and trade off our reputation which has never been higher? That is crazy



  • @canefan I have to think Helen means reorganising that about new sectors she mentions.
    It was just how she expressed our " new normal " (my words) that made me shudder.

    No international tourism focus and a closed off country will make for a very different NZ and probably decimate Air NZ.



  • @Siam said in NZ Politics:

    and probably decimate Air NZ.

    It already has.



  • @Snowy said in NZ Politics:

    @Siam said in NZ Politics:

    and probably decimate Air NZ.

    It already has.

    The government is heavily subsiding their operations at the moment. Chatting with patients that work for Air NZ and in travel flights to Australia only had 25 people per plane pre-bubble. The government picked up the slack



  • @canefan That won't go indefinitely, and they have reduced staff numbers already. We need an airline so they will still get support, it is just how small the operation becomes I guess.

    There are a heap of airliners sitting around at the moment if any of you want to buy one. I will fly it for you to, well, nowhere at the moment.



  • @Snowy Fern flights. Could you imagine.



  • @Mokey said in NZ Politics:

    @Snowy Fern flights. Could you imagine.

    Now that you mention it , yes, and I retract my offer.



  • @Snowy I sense a thread worth of riffing, before we get told off... mariner for the tall skinny flight attendant, hooroo as the "park the drinks trolley next to me" guy, poor old winger gets all his bags searched meticulously for 30 minutes everytime and virgil keeps breaking his wee TV screen 😀

    Mods delete as you need....



  • @Siam all the flight attendants are Polish!



  • @taniwharugby Looks like Shane Reti hung on in Northland, although the special votes haven't been counted yet



  • @Siam said in NZ Politics:

    poor old winger gets all his bags searched meticulously for 30 minutes everytime.

    Could be worse.

    So how about that election ay?



  • @canefan it's a messy situation. Where are they coming from? how many? and how do 'we' manage these students coming through quarantine etc when we seem reasonably pushed as is.

    There is definitely urgency for most of our tertiary education organisations (and also secondary schools) to refocus on local rather than overseas students, at least in terms of figuring out how to plug the revenue gap. National talked about letting Universities and other providers manage their own students (with oversight) but acknowledged the numbers would be low for a while. Pretty sure I've heard Hipkins mention something similar but not the private Q management aspect.

    As with a lot of other sectors we can shift education away from overseas student/profit driven to something a bit more balanced. Absolutely nothing wrong with being a strong player in the international education scene, but not to the extent that our education systems can't manage without that revenue.

    Hopefully this causes the recent ROVE consolidation of tertiary providers to get some momentum... hopefully!



  • @JC said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder Did your candidate win?

    By 14,455 votes before specials.

    International tourism and education being heavily reduced was being signalled already when Robertson pointed out that they couldn't subsidise failing businesses and industries forever, and they were named as examples.

    Both were important foreign exchange earners, but tourism jobs were some of the worst in the country (by average wages and looking at the hours of work and other conditions), and I've said before that international education was a blight, at least in terms of how many vulnerable students and families would borrow colossal amounts of money on the promise of NZ residency. No doubt both will return in smaller amounts, but this is a good opportunity for a reset.



  • @canefan international students-this is what I don't understand.
    International students to Australia pay huge fees AND medical insurance for them and partners/children.
    In NZ (I think) international postgrads, well PhD anyway, pay the same figures as domestic?
    https://www.topuniversities.com/where-to-study/oceania/new-zealand/how-much-does-it-cost-study-new-zealand
    In Australia, PhD fees can be 35,0000 AUD per year and I don't think they were supported by the govt during lockdown (unlike NZ).
    4th largest export market in Australia. Gone.
    NZ should surely capitalize. It is not like that market is going to the UK or US now either. Not just the fame across the world but the pull of no local COVID transmission is surely a market winner?



  • @nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:

    Not just the fame across the world but the pull of no local COVID transmission is surely a market winner?

    yeah,a bout that no covid thing ...https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123126179/coronavirus-one-new-community-case-of-covid19-in-auckland



  • Ok don't go to all those universities in Taranaki!



  • @nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:

    Ok don't go to all those universities in Taranaki!

    Eh, I was a bit tongue in cheek. The reality is though, that covid free doesn't appear to exist, and may not ever exist again. Given the delay in symptoms, we can have Covid and not know, therefore we can never state we are covid free.

    Your point is sound, though. We should be safely bringing people over the border in whatever condition we can, rather than just saying 'no'.



  • Yes well given Australia's internal border stuff ups NZ could really hurry ahead and do some great things, pitch the lifestyle to the techie types (like Brisbane did to the US East Coast game companies about 15 years ago), entice the top students, maybe entice unis to move out of high cost CBD areas (Auckland anyway)..campus by the Mount! Or Queenstown/Wanaka..



  • @nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:

    Yes well given Australia's internal border stuff ups NZ could really hurry ahead and do some great things, pitch the lifestyle to the techie types (like Brisbane did to the US East Coast game companies about 15 years ago), entice the top students, maybe entice unis to move out of high cost CBD areas (Auckland anyway)..campus by the Mount! Or Queenstown/Wanaka..

    We have a once in a generation chance to trade off this



  • @Godder Well done you and your team



  • @canefan

    Except it goes the other way too. If you send your kid to NZ you might face the situation of them not being able to leave and you not being able to go see them. I know this because one of my close family members is bringing their kids back to Japan, because the father is not an NZ resident, so can't visit, and because government regulations can change in an instant, they could be left with him not being able to see them for years.

    If we put that into the wider picture, many/most of my students are funded by their parents/grandparents and are incredibly risk averse. So, if the kids are in NZ, then the Covid risk may be lower, but here in Japan it's hardly a problem for kids of that age anyway, so all that happens is you send your kids there and then you end up being a problem to their host country - NZ doesn't want family members of visiting students to come in and spend money (or at least, doesn't want it now).

    On the other hand, Australia is already far more established as a destination, enjoys a similar standing with respect to Covid, and is making a much bigger effort to get students back and tourism started. I don't see this as a win for NZ at all, unless people are planning to move there long term.



  • @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    International tourism and education being heavily reduced was being signalled already when Robertson pointed out that they couldn't subsidise failing businesses and industries forever, and they were named as examples.

    Both were important foreign exchange earners, but tourism jobs were some of the worst in the country (by average wages and looking at the hours of work and other conditions), and I've said before that international education was a blight, at least in terms of how many vulnerable students and families would borrow colossal amounts of money on the promise of NZ residency. No doubt both will return in smaller amounts, but this is a good opportunity for a reset.

    Reset to what?



  • @gt12 said in NZ Politics:

    On the other hand, Australia is already far more established as a destination, enjoys a similar standing with respect to Covid

    -it should not have a similar standing and the govt has just done a crazy crazy refunding policy with universities, over 20,000 staff are predicted to lose their jobs this year, must affect teaching and supervision quality.
    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-australia-universities-2020-9-australias-researcher-numbers-to-be-decimated-over-five-years/
    and
    https://theconversation.com/7-6-billion-and-11-of-researchers-our-estimate-of-how-much-australian-university-research-stands-to-lose-by-2024-146672



  • ps I wish journalists did not write decimation because it just unleashes so many pedant battles
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-03/decimate-does-not-mean-to-kill-one-in-every-10/11459980



  • @Frank said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    International tourism and education being heavily reduced was being signalled already when Robertson pointed out that they couldn't subsidise failing businesses and industries forever, and they were named as examples.

    Both were important foreign exchange earners, but tourism jobs were some of the worst in the country (by average wages and looking at the hours of work and other conditions), and I've said before that international education was a blight, at least in terms of how many vulnerable students and families would borrow colossal amounts of money on the promise of NZ residency. No doubt both will return in smaller amounts, but this is a good opportunity for a reset.

    Reset to what?

    More focused on internal tourists and Australians, less focused on quantity. International tertiary education could return to bachelor's degrees and above like it used to be. Foreign exchange students would be fine to continue.



  • @nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:

    @gt12 said in NZ Politics:

    On the other hand, Australia is already far more established as a destination, enjoys a similar standing with respect to Covid

    -it should not have a similar standing and the govt has just done a crazy crazy refunding policy with universities, over 20,000 staff are predicted to lose their jobs this year, must affect teaching and supervision quality.
    https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-australia-universities-2020-9-australias-researcher-numbers-to-be-decimated-over-five-years/
    and
    https://theconversation.com/7-6-billion-and-11-of-researchers-our-estimate-of-how-much-australian-university-research-stands-to-lose-by-2024-146672

    For those in the field, I agree. I know that from personal experience - I missed out on an opportunity to interview for a job that was pretty much my dream job because it was eaten up by Covid. I've got some friends whose jobs are in danger.

    However, for students and parents, not at all. Oz is already making moves to get back in the international student game - we have had a number of orientation sessions from Oz universities in the last two months, all offering us really good terms to start getting our students back over there. The first schools who've agreed to start accepting our return exchange students - Oz universities. That matters as students then want to choose those schools as they know they have a far great likelihood of going to those schools. The EAP/English programs are being revisited at some schools because they weren't really delivering enough profit to be worth the money but most of our partners are jumping up and down trying to get some business from us.



  • @nostrildamus said in NZ Politics:

    Yes well given Australia's internal border stuff ups NZ could really hurry ahead and do some great things, pitch the lifestyle to the techie types (like Brisbane did to the US East Coast game companies about 15 years ago), entice the top students, maybe entice unis to move out of high cost CBD areas (Auckland anyway)..campus by the Mount! Or Queenstown/Wanaka..

    You think that land in Qtown or Wanaka is cheap? It's limited by mountains and lakes as much as councils as the limits on room for infrastructure already has Qtown struggling to cope)



  • Just saw a clip of someone called Tova O'Brien interview a talking forehead by the name of Jami-Lee* Ross. Christ she didn't miss. Is that common?

    *Seriously think that's a stripper name.



  • @NTA said in NZ Politics:

    Just saw a clip of someone called Tova O'Brien interview a taking forehead by the name of Jami-Lee* Ross. Christ she didn't miss. Is that common?

    *Seriously think that's a stripper name.

    Not that common but he has been a festering stain for the last 2 years and is a particularly reviled politician (which is saying something). He deserved everything he got.



  • @Smudge said in NZ Politics:

    @NTA said in NZ Politics:

    Just saw a clip of someone called Tova O'Brien interview a taking forehead by the name of Jami-Lee* Ross. Christ she didn't miss. Is that common?

    *Seriously think that's a stripper name.

    Not that common but he has been a festering stain for the last 2 years and is a particularly reviled politician (which is saying something). He deserved everything he got.

    She seemed pretty amused.

    I assume he's a conservative so would be loved by our Murdoch media.

    20201019_074940.jpg



  • Really interested in the make-up of the Labour cabinet.

    Without in any way buying into National's "Great Team" strategy I do think Labour's 17-20 caucus was light on talent and Cindy seemed to only trust 3-4 to do the heavy lifting. I appreciate every government has an inner sanctum of trusted lieutenants but this seemed particularly true of the last three years.

    Asking a lot for a brand new politician to step up into a cabinet post but what alternatives are there? Some positions for Greens under a supply and confidence agreement? @Godder ??

    Going to be a very interesting three years. Hope Labour really intend to be transformational and don't do a John Key and avoid doing anything that might be in any way unpopular. Lots of MP's to keep happy after the initial euphoria wears off. How will National rebuild? Can Seymour control a caucus especially a caucus that have differing agendas? How will Rawiri Taititi go as a lone MP (assuming Debbie Rawera-Packer doesn't make it) Fascinating stuff


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