It's Hammerlander time



  • It looks like Mark Hammett is keen on the vacant Crusaders or Highlanders jobs.
     
    If he ends up in one of those positions there is something horribly wrong at NZ Rugby H.Q.
     
    No, just No.
     
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/80543084/hammett-an-option-for-crusaders-or-highlanders-coaching-jobs



  • I'd take him above Matson or Philpott 🙂



  • He can go to Otago, and Stu Lancaster can get the Crusaders  :whistle:



  • Far out, since the worst kept secret of Toddy being on the outta, every name under the rugby sun has been linked to the Crusaders role.



  • If he's the sort of guy who can learn from his mistakes, he has a boat load of experience which shouldn't just be rubbished. We don't want to end up an in a situation where all our decent coaches - who may or may not have shined in NZ - are offshore.
     
    Gatland, Schimdt, Cotter, Joseph are at the top level, then you also have the likes of Crowley, Mitchell, Haig at the next level down.  And that's just international. At club level I can think of Lam & Mauger off the top of my head.
     
    Thats a hell of a lot of talent.  The player drain has nothing in comparison to the coach drain.



  • Hammer makes lots of mistakes, I'm not sure he learns from them



  • Remember if Mark Hammett had got his way, Ma'a Nonu would have been sent into Rugby exile in May 2011. A total muppet and a really bad coach.



  • Remember if Mark Hammett had got his way, Ma'a Nonu would have been sent into Rugby exile in May 2011. A total muppet and a really bad coach.

    There was quite clearly much more to it than that.  I don't think Hammer made that decison on his own.



  • There was quite clearly much more to it than that.  I don't think Hammer made that decison on his own.

    did the people at the top change between then and when he came back?



  • There was quite clearly much more to it than that. I don't think Hammer made that decison on his own.Maybe so, but Ma'a left the NZ as one of the best AB 13s ever with two RWC winner's medals in his collection. Hammett was unable to reach him



  • I would love the Hammetuer to coach anyone but us, except the blues. they've suffered enough.



  • Remember if Mark Hammett had got his way, Ma'a Nonu would have been sent into Rugby exile in May 2011. A total muppet and a really bad coach.
    The Blues are bad, but not quite exile....
    I know you love to overact to things sparky and the hyperbole is always in overdrive, but you might want to have a read of some of the comments Nonu made regarding what happened at the Canes.



  • Hammett seems to be a good assistant. But poor head coach



  • Maybe so, but Ma'a left the NZ as one of the best AB 13s ever with two RWC winner's medals in his collection. Hammett was unable to reach him

    At the top level, his talent and commitment was unquestioned.  But at super level, at one point nobody wanted to offer him a contract.  Only a last minute deal at the Blues kept him in NZ.
     
    The fact that nobody was running up to be the first to sign him isn't Hammet's fault.  It shows something else.

    did the people at the top change between then and when he came back?

    No idea, honestly.  But I do remember Hammett having the full support of the board when he made his decisons.



  • The Blues are bad, but not quite exile....
    I know you love to overact to things sparky and the hyperbole is always in overdrive, but you might want to have a read of some of the comments Nonu made regarding what happened at the Canes.
    There has never been a more loyal servant of the Hurricanes than Ma'a Nonu. Hammett's treatment of him was nothing short of appalling.
    Hammett has been an unsuccessful Head Coach everywhere he's been appointed. There are many better candidates the Crusaders should be thinking of ahead of the Hammer.



  • No idea, honestly.  But I do remember Hammett having the full support of the board when he made his decisons.

    wouldnt be ideal if they turn around and veto his first few decisions now would it! 
     
    I am sure he gave them a compelling case, they backed it up...if he comes to them with what he wants to happen and they say nup, make it even worse form the outset.
     
    New canes CEO only came on this year I think.



  • wouldnt be ideal if they turn around and veto his first few decisions now would it! 
     
    I am sure he gave them a compelling case, they backed it up...if he comes to them with what he wants to happen and they say nup, make it even worse form the outset.
     
    New canes CEO only came on this year I think.

    Correct, it wouldn't be.  But it was a controversial decision right, and I think it would have need buy-in from a lot of people, including other senior players before it went through.
     
    Nonu himself has said this - ""I could probably now thank him [Hammett] in terms of what happened," Nonu said. "I could honestly say I was bitter in terms of when I left. These things happen and life throws you challenges in terms of what you want to get out of it. I've come through a better person and have new motivations to play rugby."



  • Correct, it wouldn't be.  But it was a controversial decision right, and I think it would have need buy-in from a lot of people, including other senior players before it went through.
     
    Nonu himself has said this - ""I could probably now thank him [Hammett] in terms of what happened," Nonu said. "I could honestly say I was bitter in terms of when I left. These things happen and life throws you challenges in terms of what you want to get out of it. I've come through a better person and have new motivations to play rugby."

    but my point was, it was probably the same fish heads that rubber stamped the decision to ship Nonu as those that agreed to take him back...I wasnt defending the decision or saying it was wrong, just responding to your point that he wouldnt have been alone in making the decision.
     
    Granted, now, Nonu can look back and say that was something that helped him, we can look back and see the player he became possibly through what he went through, for the sake of Hammet, it woudl not appear the right road to tread, for Nonu, it turns out it probably was.



  • If there's a thread to rival a SBW one it's one mentioning the horror of the Hammett years.......and that they may return.



  • but my point was, it was probably the same fish heads that rubber stamped the decision to ship Nonu as those that agreed to take him back...I wasnt defending the decision or saying it was wrong, just responding to your point that he wouldnt have been alone in making the decision.
     
    Granted, now, Nonu can look back and say that was something that helped him, we can look back and see the player he became possibly through what he went through, for the sake of Hammet, it woudl not appear the right road to tread, for Nonu, it turns out it probably was.

    Yeah, probably.  If thats the case, it comes down the argument which was pitched up by the coach.  In the same way that Henry & Hansen have been able to work well with Nonu, Boyd was offering the same - and had a past track record to prove it.  
     
    Now, this makes it easy to turn around and say that Hammett not being able to work with Nonu is his fault, hence Hammett sux etc etc.  Which is a valid argument, but neither Joseph nor Kirwan seemed able to work with him either and Blackadder or Rennie didn't want to sign him.  I can't offer any reasons why, on that.
     
    I care little as to whether or not Hammett is actually a good coach, I am just pretty well convinced that the Nonu of 2011 was detrimental to the overall success of the Canes under Hammett and he recognised that and did something about it.



  • Yeah, probably.  If thats the case, it comes down the argument which was pitched up by the coach.  In the same way that Henry & Hansen have been able to work well with Nonu, Boyd was offering the same - and had a past track record to prove it.  
     
    Now, this makes it easy to turn around and say that Hammett not being able to work with Nonu is his fault, hence Hammett sux etc etc.  Which is a valid argument, but neither Joseph nor Kirwan seemed able to work with him either and Blackadder or Rennie didn't want to sign him.  I can't offer any reasons why, on that.
     
    I care little as to whether or not Hammett is actually a good coach, I am just pretty well convinced that the Nonu of 2011 was detrimental to the overall success of the Canes under Hammett and he recognised that and did something about it.

    see I think that is much easier to explain away in that Nonu's heart was always in Wellington, so despite any external efforts Nonu may have made to be better for the other sides, there was always gonna be something missing.



  • Yeah, probably.  If thats the case, it comes down the argument which was pitched up by the coach.  In the same way that Henry & Hansen have been able to work well with Nonu, Boyd was offering the same - and had a past track record to prove it.  
     
    Now, this makes it easy to turn around and say that Hammett not being able to work with Nonu is his fault, hence Hammett sux etc etc.  Which is a valid argument, but neither Joseph nor Kirwan seemed able to work with him either and Blackadder or Rennie didn't want to sign him.  I can't offer any reasons why, on that.
     
    I care little as to whether or not Hammett is actually a good coach, I am just pretty well convinced that the Nonu of 2011 was detrimental to the overall success of the Canes under Hammett and he recognised that and did something about it.

    They didn't make top 6 once. Even after Nonu left.



  • If there's a thread to rival a SBW one it's one mentioning the horror of the Hammett years.......and that they may return.

    see I didnt care greatly about it, or more accurately didnt have a vested interest in the coach (being a cantab) or the canes (not being a canes fan) I didnt have a foot in any camp so just watched form behind the ropes as a Kiwi rugby fan...



  • Hope he goes to the Highlanders and gets rid of that troublemaker fullback they have.



  • Hope he goes to the Highlanders and gets rid of that troublemaker fullback they have.

    Fekitoa and Waisaki Nahalo have been trouble ever since they arrived from Auckland. The Highlanders need a drastic culture change. Hammett is the man for the job.



  • That half back the Highlanders have has too much to say for himself. The boy from Fielding would be happier playing for the Hurricanes I reckon.
     
    Sam Whitelock Vs Mark Hammett is an argument just waiting to happen. Again another Fielding product who'd be happy with those pesky Hurricanes.



  • That half back the Highlanders have has too much to say for himself. The boy from Fielding would be happier playing for the Hurricanes I reckon.
     
    Sam Whitelock Vs Mark Hammett is an argument just waiting to happen. Again another Fielding product who'd be happy with those pesky Hurricanes.

    Imagine Barrett running off Smiths pass. 😃





  • http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/10268601/Hammett-was-popular-in-dressing-room-Smith
     
    Extraordinary comments from Conrad!   🙂

    I think everybody is just happier viewing Hammett as a complete rubbish coach, with his firing of Nonu one of the main reasons.  The suggestions of what he'd do with Smith et. al. above shows that nobody is really interested in the other side.
     
    Granted, I'd probably be the same if he had done simliar things with the chiefs, but it's worth remembering we didn't exactly have a golden run showing great consistency under Foster ... and what's he doing now?



  • I think everybody is just happier viewing Hammett as a complete rubbish coach, with his firing of Nonu one of the main reasons.  The suggestions of what he'd do with Smith et. al. above shows that nobody is really interested in the other side.
     
    Granted, I'd probably be the same if he had done simliar things with the chiefs, but it's worth remembering we didn't exactly have a golden run showing great consistency under Foster ... and what's he doing now?

    Rugby is a results game, so I wouldn't have Hammett anywhere near a super rugby head coaching gig.  And the same goes for Fozzie, heaven help us the day he ever gets a go at the head coach ABs job or tries to go back to super rugby



  • Someone call the NZRU and tell them they need to stop Hammer time...





  • Maybe so, but Ma'a left the NZ as one of the best AB 13s ever with two RWC winner's medals in his collection.

    No he didn't.



  • http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/10268601/Hammett-was-popular-in-dressing-room-Smith
    Extraordinary comments from Conrad! 🙂

    Much better to be respected than loved as a coach. Wayne Smith was almost certainly the most loved AB head coach in recent times.
    Ideally Hammer coaches an Australian or South African franchise in Super Rugby - or continues with the wolves - and gets an extended opportunity to prove he has figured some things out.
    The fact no SA or Aus franchises have chased him down while battlers like Mitchell got multiple opportunities speaks to the reputation he has carved out currently.


  • Banned

    I don't know what the issue was with Nonu and I don't care. It could be he needed a kick up the arse, it could be they just didn't get along. I'm not going to just Hammet on that. I judge him on his record at the Canes which was pretty pathetic.
    It would be one thing if they lost but played some good rugby or if they were whipping boys like the Sunwolves. But they played shit rugby and had the players to make the semis at least once during his reign.
    There can be no complaints about a meddling board or not having enough power. For whatever reason he was handed Pharaoh like powers and did everything the Hammer way. Well the Hammer way was shit and so were the Canes.
    I was not surprised in the least that he lasted only 6 months in Cardiff.
    It also doesn't appear as if Crusader fans are particularly keen on having the prodigal son return. I wonder why?



  • No he didn't.

    12s, my bad :truce:



  • At the top level, his talent and commitment was unquestioned.  But at super level, at one point nobody wanted to offer him a contract.  Only a last minute deal at the Blues kept him in NZ.
     
    The fact that nobody was running up to be the first to sign him isn't Hammet's fault.  It shows something else.
     
     
     
    No idea, honestly.  But I do remember Hammett having the full support of the board when he made his decisons.

    this is a myth - The blues still wanted him when he left for the highlanders - recall all the hoopla about a handshake deal and we feel betrayed coming from JK . Then he spent a year at the highlanders and decided Dunedin wasn't his thing and told tem he was moving on. They were quite happy for him to stay but understood why he wanted to leave.



  • this is a myth - The blues still wanted him when he left for the highlanders - recall all the hoopla about a handshake deal and we feel betrayed coming from JK . Then he spent a year at the highlanders and decided Dunedin wasn't his thing and told tem he was moving on. They were quite happy for him to stay but understood why he wanted to leave.

    I also seriously doubt if he absolutely had to he would have been welcomed to the Crusaders. Even if Nonu was as bad off the field at Super level as what MR and others suggest with McCaw, Read and Carter there I reckon they absolutely would have gone in to bat for him and handled whatever issues the same way they are in the AB environment - similar to Ali Williams.
     
    Given the embarrassment of riches at the time and to prevent the perception of preferential treatment from the NZRU they laid low on Nonu.



  • Rugby is a results game, so I wouldn't have Hammett anywhere near a super rugby head coaching gig.  And the same goes for Fozzie, heaven help us the day he ever gets a go at the head coach ABs job or tries to go back to super rugby
    Fozzie is taking over Byrnes kicking duties in the ABs...woulda thought Fox woulda been the logical option?



  • Fozzie is taking over Byrnes kicking duties in the ABs...woulda thought Fox woulda been the logical option?

    Foster said he and Fox would be sharing the role previously performed by Byrne.  I'm not sure Fox is with the team 100% of the time either.


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