Banking Nonsense



  • Some help required from the fern intelligentsia.
     
    So I've been living in a 2nd or 3rd world country for most of my adult life and now face a lengthy stint in the lucky country (Oz for those that don't know). By the way I'm liking heaps about being here. Asia is such a great place to learn patience and not dwell on being self entitled or judgemental to others that I'm cruising around here in some zen like spiritual state listening to lucky people whine about inconsequentials and brushing off an incredibly judgemental and vapid terrestrial TV and news shows.
     
    But I had a banking encounter that staggered me and most likely won't even raise an eyebrow to you other "westerners"
     
    In Thailand when I internet transfer money from my bank account (the bank is huge and is the equivalent to ANZ, BNZ, NAB, National, Commonwealth etc) to my wife's bank account of the same bank the transfer is free and instantaneous - I press send and the missus's phone sms beeps about 2 seconds later.
     
    When transferring from one Thai bank to another there is an option of paying 1 dollar for a real time transfer, or you save a dollar and the transfer takes a day or two.
     
    So it blew my mind when me mum used her ANZ account to put some cash in my ANZ account (same branch actually) and the funds weren't available. It's Queens birthday over here. 
     
    I rang the cunts at ANZ to get a handle on how the process works, and Sam told me the shit that you guys already know about a day or so and nothing over the weekend or public hols
     
    I was flaberghasted (naive eh?)
     
    I said to Sam, "so you're telling me that the computer responsible for transferring money doesn't work on weekends or public holidays. I mean please reassure me Sam that you don't have humans carting notes from mum's bank account to mine"
     
     
    So fellas, I can't win this one but I pose a couple of questions:
     
    Do all banks take days to transfer money from one of THEIR accounts to another of THEIR accounts?
     
    Is there no instantaneous transfer between accounts at the same bank and even branch? - I get it that overseas inter bank transfers have delays and there is a forex industry and companies that address this
     
    Why do people put up with this shit?  no release of funds over a weekend - It's a fucking computer programme!! What's so fucken sacred about a weekend - every day same in asia
     
    Is it true that the banks make a quid over this delay? If so how, actually?
     
    You westerners have lazy self entitled computers that refuse to work nights, overtime, and weekends huh?
     
     
    please set me right if I've missed a vital essential part of life in all this
     
    ta  🙂



  • Kiwibank is instantaneous to other Kiwibank accounts all the time.



  • It is instant between ANZ accounts in NZ as well.



  • Kiwibank is instantaneous to other Kiwibank accounts all the time.

    Cheers Hooroo
     
    Unfortunately I'm in the lucky country, not the choice bro country.
     
    Dumb old me thought that should be the way for all banks just like it is in less sophisticated and backward and dumber countries...go figure 😉



  • It is instant between ANZ accounts in NZ as well.

    Thanks Baron, just an Aussie thing perhaps??



  • Siam  - ANZ is notorious for their processing of transfers.
     
    Basically, before the technology was available for "real time" transfers and bank balance updates all banks invested heavily in batch processing. This means all of the transfers and payments for the day get put into one file, adding up to the many millions of dollars, and get paid in an overnight batch run.
     
    Changing the technology to do it "real time" is hugely expensive, and ANZ quite simply have not made the investment.
     
    BNZ and Westpac both do "intra-day" processing, meaning a transfer between those banks will happen in 1 - 2 hours. Not perfect but a step in the right direction. As BSG says all banks in NZ do real-time transfers so long as it is between their own accounts - I am suprised that ANZ Australia don't already do that.
     
    So in summary, all banks have much room for improvement in this space but the investment in the technology is very big. ANZ is dragging their heals the most in this regard.



  • Siam  - ANZ is notorious for their processing of transfers.
     
    Basically, before the technology was available for "real time" transfers and bank balance updates all banks invested heavily in batch processing. This means all of the transfers and payments for the day get put into one file, adding up to the many millions of dollars, and get paid in an overnight batch run.
     
    Changing the technology to do it "real time" is hugely expensive, and ANZ quite simply have not made the investment.
     
    BNZ and Westpac both do "intra-day" processing, meaning a transfer between those banks will happen in 1 - 2 hours. Not perfect but a step in the right direction. As BSG says all banks in NZ do real-time transfers so long as it is between their own accounts - I am suprised that ANZ Australia don't already do that.
     
    So in summary, all banks have much room for improvement in this space but the investment in the technology is very big. ANZ is dragging their heals the most in this regard.

    Brilliant, thanks NQ



  • Yep, that's about right. If I transfer between my own accounts, its instantaneous, but to anyone else is overnight.
     
    The banks say it is so they can check and confirm details. I believe there are also some checks they need to make for our anti-terror laws.
     
    Some say they are floating those funds to skim interest, but I find that hard to believe as someone would have called them on it by now.
     
    The Reserve Bank is apparently working on getting everyone to instantaneous transfers (domestic institutions) by the end of this year. Don't hold your breath.
     
    I actually wrote the batch funds transfer system for a bank I was working for, to use domestic bank accounts (they never had it before because they were using forex products). It is quite simple, really, and there is no reason the banks couldn't process files instantly. They just choose not to develop the capability.
     
    The systems we're using are decades old and as NQ says: ain't broke, don't spend money fixing it. That's why our banks post multi-billions in profit, because they like it this way.



  • Yep, that's about right. If I transfer between my own accounts, its instantaneous, but to anyone else is overnight.
     
    The banks say it is so they can check and confirm details. I believe there are also some checks they need to make for our anti-terror laws.
     
    Some say they are floating those funds to skim interest, but I find that hard to believe as someone would have called them on it by now.
     
    The Reserve Bank is apparently working on getting everyone to instantaneous transfers (domestic institutions) by the end of this year. Don't hold your breath.
     
    I actually wrote the batch funds transfer system for a bank I was working for, to use domestic bank accounts (they never had it before because they were using forex products). It is quite simple, really, and there is no reason the banks couldn't process files instantly. They just choose not to develop the capability.
     
    The systems we're using are decades old and as NQ says: ain't broke, don't spend money fixing it. That's why our banks post multi-billions in profit, because they like it this way.

    Thanks Nick
     
    How come the 2 day delay over weekends or longer for a public holiday? Is the checks and confirmation process by humans?



  • The backwardness of the lucky country around banking does my head in sometimes.
     
    I'm with CommBank and yep, it takes a couple of days to clear Commbank to Commbank transactions. God knows how long it takes to transfer to other banks. What is worse is that they give you two balances in your bank account, your balance and then your balance (what you actually have access to) - so you'll see the transaction, you just can't get at the cash.
     
    Yep, that's about right. If I transfer between my own accounts, its instantaneous,

    Sheesh, this should just be a given and not a bank feature.
     
    The lack of Eftpos/charging for Eftpos is the most annoying thing I find about Oz though, I'm always having to remember to have cash on me - and that includes those stupidly gigantic 50c pieces. I spent a few weeks in NZ just before Easter and didn't use cash once.



  • Yep, that's about right. If I transfer between my own accounts, its instantaneous, but to anyone else is overnight.
     
    The banks say it is so they can check and confirm details. I believe there are also some checks they need to make for our anti-terror laws.
     
    Some say they are floating those funds to skim interest, but I find that hard to believe as someone would have called them on it by now.
     
    The Reserve Bank is apparently working on getting everyone to instantaneous transfers (domestic institutions) by the end of this year. Don't hold your breath.
     
    I actually wrote the batch funds transfer system for a bank I was working for, to use domestic bank accounts (they never had it before because they were using forex products). It is quite simple, really, and there is no reason the banks couldn't process files instantly. They just choose not to develop the capability.
     
    The systems we're using are decades old and as NQ says: ain't broke, don't spend money fixing it. That's why our banks post multi-billions in profit, because they like it this way.

    Yep. The "intra-day" stuff that BNZ and Westpac do isn't actually an investment in new technology, it's just faking it by running batch processing jobs during the day. They take on some risk by doing this, as they update the balance before the funds are actually approved, so I think they only do it up to a certain $ limit.
     
    They are happy to take on that risk if it's between their own accounts though (as it's all within their own environment).



  • Thanks Nick
     
    How come the 2 day delay over weekends or longer for a public holiday? Is the checks and confirmation process by humans?

    All I know is that the banks don't do batch processing on Saturday and Sunday nights. I don't actually know the reason behind this - probably gives them a chance to do scheduled maintenance etc on their systems.



  • I worked for a small direct debit company from 2000-2005 and we processed files manually - that was the reason we didn't debit (customers) or credit (clients) on weekends. Because we had checks and balances that needed human eyes for a small company, and sometimes had to run it a tad late to ensure we picked up any last-minute requests.
     
    It was worse with Amex and Diners: 20 records per page, with disclaimers top and bottom, that had to be signed and FAXED to their respective processing houses.
     
    You'll note most direct debit products don't work on weekends or public holidays, because they want someone to actually push the button a lot of times. Gives them someone ("computer error" my arse) to blame.



  • commbank have that thing through the app where you can transfer to another person's commbank account instantly by tapping your phones together, it's awesome. 
     
     
    but, i agree, in general, banks are cunts.



  • Australia was one of the very first in the world to have what's known as Real-Time Gross Settlement of any kind, back in the 1990s. Australian banks net their obligations to each other at the end of each business day and settle them by moving funds at 9am each morning. So all the ANZ count up all the money they owe to accounts held with Westpac and deduct receipts due to them from Westpac (e.g. for settlement of securities trades) and move the difference through a batch process called (from memory) RITS. The weekend delay is simply because Friday's payments are moved on Monday morning.
     
    Not moving the funds between accounts on the same day (or even instantaneously) is a choice that your bank is making. The reason they don't do it is because there is substantial income to be made in keeping it "idle" for as long as possible. All the credit balances can be invested intra-day, or used to fund their positions with the central bank that they might otherwise have to borrow (at an actual cost) to cover. There's no reason for clients to put up with it but be warned, if they change the way they do things they'll probably pass the costs involved back onto you the customer through increased margins or ( as in the UK) actual operating fees for current accounts.



  • Winger may need to confirm that for you, JC........ 🙂



  • Thanks JC - I have some understanding of the IT side of things, but good to know why it's set up like this from the business POV.



  • Australia was one of the very first in the world to have what's known as Real-Time Gross Settlement of any kind, back in the 1990s.

    And we did that because our banking sector was (relatively) small and uncomplicated in terms of number of products. When you look at the US banking system - mainly due to the sheer number of institutions - implementing standards-based transactions is more difficult.
     
    New Zealand is now well ahead of us on the electronic banking side only in part due to the smaller population. Mostly, NZ institutions (and not just banks) see the benefits of serving customers with a minimum of cash transactions and the associated logistics that creates. Also a better nationwide telecoms network and the appetite to take advantage of it.
     
    I think I said while I was on holiday, the only place I really needed cash was at a little cafe in Foxton Beach where they didn't have Credit facilities and I was out of cash.
     
     
    Oh and Siam: don't use a non-ANZ ATM unless you want to pop a vein 🙂



  • Well kudos to you for visiting Foxton and making it out alive.



  • LOL. Wasn't that bad. Summer, plenty of sun, the windmill was cool, and the beach was great. Broke up the drive from Whanganui to Welly nicely.