Scott Kuggeleijn sex trial



  • Sadly this is another she says he says, too much booze case. Although these cases can often be difficult to prosecute. There are some pointers which look favourably for the victim and her case. Especially with Kuggeleijn admitting "He was pretty shocked ... [he said] 'I know I was persistent but I didn't rape her' and that she said no a few times in the night and he rolled away and then they woke up and she didn't say 'no' so he thought it was okay." http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11682432.
    A witness in the rape trial of a Northern District's cricketer has been grilled over why he has changed aspects of his statement around what the accused has told him.
    But the witness, who has known fast bowler Scott Kuggeleijn for most of his life, says what he originally told police was simply "a mistake" or it must have been "misinterpreted" by the police officer who made his statement after the alleged incident in May last year.
    Kuggeleijn is on trial in the Hamilton District Court this week defending one charge of rape.
    Taking to the stand yesterday was the man who held the party at his Silverdale house that night.
    When questioned about the events before, during and after, the alleged rape, by Crown prosecutor Jacinda Foster, the witness said Kuggeleijn went to his house after being asked to leave the complainant's flat.
    "He just said that it was really weird, 'That I had sex with her and she left to go get a drink and [flatmate] came down and wanted me to leave'. He didn't know what was going on. He was confused," the witness said.
    Foster then asked him why in his police statement he was quoted as saying the cricketer had said the complainant had "left the room crying".
    "Can you tell us the difference between your statement of June 13 and what you're telling the jury today?" Foster asked the witness.
    "The reason is either it was my mistake or things got misinterpreted with the policeman writing it. The more I thought about it the more things start to come to me and I'm sitting here today telling the truth."
    The witness was also called into question by Foster about what the complainant told him when she and her friends visited him hours after the alleged incident.
    Continued below.
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    He told Foster the complainant said "she said 'no' and that he stopped [trying during the night] and then they woke up and when I asked her 'did you say no?', then she said 'no, I felt like I didn't have a choice'."
    "They were the words she used?" Foster asked.
    "100 per cent," the witness replied.
    In his original statement the witness told police that he asked her "why didn't she say no and she said she felt like she didn't have a choice" but to have sex with him.
    The witness - who spoke to police about changes to his statement on Tuesday night and yesterday morning - told the court he spoke to Kuggeleijn again the night of the alleged rape, telling him what the girls had said.
    "He was pretty shocked ... [he said] 'I know I was persistent but I didn't rape her' and that she said no a few times in the night and he rolled away and then they woke up and she didn't say 'no' so he thought it was okay."
    Earlier, a flatmate of the alleged victim says she came bursting into her bedroom, struggling to breath and crying uncontrollably just after the incident's alleged to have happened.
    "I noticed she was upset and I jumped up and gave [alleged victim] a hug ... she was crying a lot and was struggling to breath ... [she said] she didn't want to but he kept trying."
    After she'd calmed down the alleged victim managed to tell the flatmate that she "didn't want to [have sex] but I couldn't push him off".



  • Let me get this correct: They stayed in the same bed? He pressured her to have sex before they went to sleep, she repeatedly said no. Then in the morning he rolls over with a stiffy and tries it on again, she acquiesces and now it's come to this?



  • But the issue is that he admitted he was told no, and never received any consent. But closing statements are expected tomorrow, so will probably see a verdict either late tomorrow, or Friday. This could be a massive wake up call for men in professional sport (any young men really), who are well known for throwing their hips into everything and anything on Saturday nights.





  • I find it strange that she didn't call out for help in a crowded house whilst she was being allegedly raped.



  • I find it strange that she didn't call out for help in a crowded house whilst she was being allegedly raped.

    Utter fear does that to a person. People freeze and can hardly breathe, let alone scream.
    If he threatened her, she wouldn't have screamed out of fear either.
    Be careful not to resort to victim blaming here.



  • Two people got on the piss and spent the night together. Who the fuck knows what actually happened. He said / she said based on hazy memories. Pretty tough one for the courts to sort out.



  • The major issue is the statements from witnesses saying he was told no a number of times. Witnesses who were told this by Kuggeleijn. So he is basically admitting he didn't have consent. It's like knocking at the door of someone you know, being told not today and walking in anyway.



  • bizaare conversation to have with your mates TBH...
     
    so did you score last night:
     
    Yeah bro
    Nah bro
     
    But the conversations has kinda gone - yeah mate I scored, but man I had to work on her, she said no loads, but eventually gave in.



  • Utter fear does that to a person. People freeze and can hardly breathe, let alone scream.
    If he threatened her, she wouldn't have screamed out of fear either.
    Be careful not to resort to victim blaming here.

    You need to be careful assuming there is a victim. 
     
    As for utter fear.... was she afraid of physical violence if she didnt have sex or had called for help? What evidence has been presented to support that? Are you or the prosecution suggesting that she was so scared that she was struck mute? Despite knowing that help and a solution to the threat was one good yell away?



  • saw this on FB, assume it relates to this case?

    I'm gunna start going home with random very drunk guys and stealing all of their shit. Everything they own. It won't be my fault though... they were drunk. They... should have known better. I'll get away with it 90% of the time but then when one brave man takes me to court over it, I'll argue that I wasn't sure if he meant it when he said 'no don't steal my Audi.' I just wasn't sure if he meant it. I said 'Can I please steal your Gucci watch?' He said 'no' but I just wasn't sure if he meant it. He was drunk.He brought this on himself. You should have seen how he was dressed at the club, expensive shirts and shoes. What kind of message is he sending with that!? I thought he wanted me to come and steal all of his shit. He was asking for it. When he said 'no' to me taking everything he owned I just didn't know if he meant it. 'No' isn't objective enough, it could mean anything.



  • Hypothetically speaking, trying to talk a girl who's saying no into having sex is a high risk manoeuvre. If she says no best to bug out and move on



  • Hypothetically speaking, trying to talk a girl who's saying no into having sex is a high risk manoeuvre. If she says no best to bug out and move on

    That's what I'd do if I was ever rejected. Assuming I didn't die of shock.



  • I've deleted half of this thread
     
    For matters before the court, please provide a source if you are stating something as a fact
     
    It is not 'irrelevant' and no I will not 'google it myself'. TSF can be liable for what is posted here so we will err on the side of caution



  • Why were they sleeping in the same bed?



  • That's what I'd do if I was ever rejected. Assuming I didn't die of shock.

    What's with all the food stains?  Breakfast in Bed?



  • Why were they sleeping in the same bed?

    Why does that matter?



  • Why does that matter?

    Yes, why would that little detail have any significance in a rape case.
    I'm not judging either of the parties I'm just wondering why they were sleeping in the same bed.



  • That's the thing aye, doesn't matter if she wanted to fool a bit, the minute she says no that's game over...



  • Yes, why would that little detail have any significance in a rape case.
    I'm not judging either of the parties I'm just wondering why they were sleeping in the same bed.

    I am not sure why they shouldnt?