Fix the Wallabies



  • What would you do?

    If it was me:

    1. Drop Moore and start TPN
    2. Start Skelton with Douglas
    3. Forget Poopah.
      Start Pocock at 7. Hooper can add something as a ball runner to probe wider spaces off the bench.

    I know we can't invent an 8 for them, but how about Fardy at 8, Mumm at 6?

    The drawbacks with Pooper are just not worth the upside. Hooper gets monstered. He just does not have the power and bulk and gets knocked backwards. And as has been discussed Bono lacks power in both attack and in d. Seriously limits their lineout.

    1. Ditch the Giteau rule.
      I know Genia is much better than Phipps. But bringing these players in is a step back. 4 years out from RWC they should be looking to build a new team. Not oldies who will likely not make 2019.

    Try Strzexcxxcvtver.
    5. Try something different in midfield. Put Folau at centre. Shame they lost so many 2nd 5/8s. On that basis i had no issue with the 2x10s they picked but it's not the long term option. (Quade actually went ok.) Maybe Kerevi at 12. Take a punt and invest in some young talent on the wings.

    Not saying this will give you a Bledisloe winning team immediately. But it will go somewhere towards getting one sometime.



  • What would you do?
    If it was me:

    1. Drop Moore and start TPN
    2. Start Skelton with Douglas
    3. Forget Poopah.
      Start Pocock at 7. Hoopah can add something as a ball runner to probe wider spaces off the bench.
      I know we can't invent an 8 for them, but how about Fardy at 8, Mumm at 6?
      The drawbacks with Pooper are just not worth the upside. Hoopah gets monstered. He just does not have the power and bulk and gets knocked backwards. And as has been discussed Bono lacks power in both attack and in d. Seriously limits their lineout.
    4. Ditch the Giteau rule.
      I know Genia is much better than Phipps. But bringing these players in is a step back. 4 years out from RWC they should be looking to build a new team. Not oldies who will likely not make 2019.
      Try Strzexcxxcvtver.
    5. Try something different in midfield. Put Folau at centre. Shame they lost so many 2nd 5/8s. On that basis i had no issue with the 2x10s they picked but it's not the long yerm option. (Quade actually went ok.) Maybe Kerevi at 12. Take a punt and invest in some young talent on the wings.

    Not saying this will give you a Bledisloe winning team immediately. But it will go somewhere towards getting one sometime.

    I was going to post an Aussie 23 for the next game and realised we don't play them so whos gives a sh*t...
     
    But agree with most of what you're saying...
    Ashley-Cooper or Folau need to move into centre, Folau is pretty safe at the back so Ashley-Cooper if he's available. Haylett-Petty was ok. Was it that Hodge kid who booted it from 55? sheesh, get him into the team, at the very least teams will think twice about offending anywhere in their half if hes hoofing them that far.
    If Cooper was 10, he did fuck all except for that pinpoint bomb, he just lacks confidence vs NZ now. Felt like Foley was covering both roles.
    Genia was alright at 9. I don't think the other halves offer more.
     
    I suggested moving Pocock to 7 and Hooper to bench for the last game.
    Skelton is just a big munter, but doesn't have the engine to go long enough, nor enough impact to come from the bench - he was anonymous last night.
    You just knew the young #5 was going to get a card last night - dipshit. 
    Seems to be a massive disconnect in the lineout.
    McFardy looked pissed to be benched.
     
    With the musical chairs in the forwards last night, you couldn't help but feel there was some dodgy Aussie behaviour enabling them to keep up the intensity, rolling subs sort of shit.
     
    Also was it me, but don't the aussies seem to be copping a massive amount of injuries - they're losing 2-3 guys per game right now.

    If Cooper was 10, he did fuck all except for that pinpoint bomb, he just lacks confidence vs NZ now. Felt like Foley was covering both roles.


  • This is a weird thread. Honestly - and maybe I'm still just bitter after watching the train wreck over the last 5 tests - but since when did this forum give a flying fuck about the Wallabies as anything but fodder?
     
    I do appreciate the sentiment, don't get me wrong, but it sounds a bit like "Here's a pat on the head and some hints to help you lose a bit more acceptably"

    Not saying this will give you a Bledisloe winning team immediately. But it will go somewhere towards getting one sometime.

    By 2028 none of these guys will be playing.



  • I was thinking that ... the last thing you want is sympathy 🙂
    I suppose it's a theoretical exercise in "what would you do?"
    And whilst I'm happy to keep on winning I do want to see rugby on this side of the Tasman strong.
    Oh, and if i was the ARU rather than coach I'd have a quiet word with Cheika to tone it down.



  • This is a weird thread. Honestly - and maybe I'm still just bitter after watching the train wreck over the last 5 tests - but since when did this forum give a flying fuck about the Wallabies as anything but fodder?
    I do appreciate the sentiment, don't get me wrong, but it sounds a bit like "Here's a pat on the head and some hints to help you lose a bit more acceptably"
    By 2028 none of these guys will be playing.

    if it's any help to you Nick I'm quite content for the wallabies to carry on getting pumped .



  • This is a weird thread. Honestly - and maybe I'm still just bitter after watching the train wreck over the last 5 tests - but since when did this forum give a flying fuck about the Wallabies as anything but fodder?
     
    I do appreciate the sentiment, don't get me wrong, but it sounds a bit like "Here's a pat on the head and some hints to help you lose a bit more acceptably"
     
     
     
     
    By 2028 none of these guys will be playing.

    we dont care about the Wallabies, but a shitty Wallaby side aint good for world rugby...is that better, now the Kiwi anti-Wallaby slant remains 🙂



  • if it's any help to you Nick I'm quite content for the wallabies to carry on getting pumped .

    Your honesty is appreciated.

    we dont care about the Wallabies, but a shitty Wallaby side aint good for world rugby...is that better,

    World Rugby wouldn't actually change that much if Australia slipped below Argentina permanently. Remember their focus is on selling out RWC stadia and seeing a healthy 6N fill grounds every year. The 6N could give less fucks if Australia degraded to easybeat status, because it would give them some bragging rights.
     
    Gatland must need a fucking chapstick from licking his lips so hard at our upcoming game in November. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
    So now Evil NTA has spewed his bile, let's go deeper:
     
    I don't understand why Mitchell bothered to fly back if he's not being selected. Injured, I've heard, or not fit. Either way - waste of  money (hopefully his).
     
    In any case, I'm all for dropping the Giteau Rule. It was a good stopgap for RWC2015, but that is where it should have ended.
     
    Putting Folau at centre isn't going to stop us lacking any kind of pace on the wing. It might help the core elements in close by adding a big of threat, but you still need the forwards to get on the front foot in order to create the space.
     
    We don't have a number 8 at the moment. Every one playing in state colours is either too small, not skilful enough, not abrasive, or otherwise injured.
     
    Holloway was maybe a prospect but Cheika has a history of not picking him at the Tahs in favour of Palu, and Holloway is out for another month after surgery anyway. If he doesn't make the EOYT, then you can forget about seeing him in Wallaby gold unless every other back rower in Australia is injured. And even then....
     
    Here's the thing: I don't WANT the Wallabies fixed. Shocking to say, but the problem is if the Wallabies deliver wins against the Boks and Argentina (neither of which is a sure bet) it'll paper over the cracks yet again.
     
    I want the fucking ARU to hurt. I don't want them to fire Cheika because there is no-one else at the moment.
     
    I want everyone involved to stop comparing dicks and start working together on the solution, because it can't be done at top level only. That is an outcome of good processes that feed into it. 
     
    By lifting their game, the ABs have put down a great marker for everyone to aspire to. The problem is, the NH have never reached those heights, and very rarely has anyone else in the SH done that either. 
     
    You can't ask the ABs to go into cruise mode, but at the same time how does anyone else improve?
     
    Look at where the Wallabies are, how our environment operates with its NRL + AFL challenges, and wonder what will change when we're bringing $250M deals to the table as part of a larger piece, and the other two sports are talking billions in the domestic market alone. Pay TV penetration isn't because of Super Rugby: its because of the other two. The games that DO appear on FTA are usually shit, and often involve the Ponies (if there's a difference).
     
    Look where the Boks are heading with their unrestricted selection policies. That is a much bigger discussion but our politics are at least based on school ties and not race. That's a fucking mess!
     
    The Southern Hemisphere in general is about the same in strength overall, but it is now concentrated more in NZ and less in Australia. Probably gaining some ground in Argentina, while South Africa declines, too.
     
    Speaking of the Boks: fucking hell we're in for a bashing after they lost to the Argies. Then the Pumas turn up a week later in Perth. Fuck...



  • NTA, my team going forward assuming everyone is fit and available.
     
    15 Beale
    14 Falou
    11 Mitchell
    12 Reece Hodge
    13 Magnay (time to test out the young guys)
    10 Foley
    9 Genia
    8 Jed Holloway
    7 Pocock/Mcmahon
    6 Fardy
    5 Coleman
    4 Douglas
    3 Kepu
    2 Ready
    1 Sio



  • There are some good prospects in there, no doubt. But throwing in rookies and hoping for pros isn't going to work. Particularly as Folau isn't a winger, and waiting for a few in your list to be fit and available is a long time.
     
    I wouldn't be surprised if the rumours about Folau going to the Broncos are accurate, particularly the way rugby is going here.



  • World Rugby wouldn't actually change that much if Australia slipped below Argentina permanently. Remember their focus is on selling out RWC stadia and seeing a healthy 6N fill grounds every year. The 6N could give less fucks if Australia degraded to easybeat status, because it would give them some bragging rights.

    Dunno, SH rugby needs Aussie strong (SH rugby is World rugby ;)), I prefer Aussie strgon, as much fun as it is beating the Wallabies, ideally we have close matches where the result isnt known before kick off...isnt this how the Bledisloe ended up being a non-entity until Aus won it after many years of not having it?



  • There are some good prospects in there, no doubt. But throwing in rookies and hoping for pros isn't going to work. Particularly as Folau isn't a winger, and waiting for a few in your list to be fit and available is a long time.
     
    I wouldn't be surprised if the rumours about Folau going to the Broncos are accurate, particularly the way rugby is going here.

    do the Aussies do what the ABs do in regard to the young prospects and just call them into camp to immerse them in the culture and environment with little or no intention of playing them, just to see how they respond?



  • We have extended training camps. They'll select ~45 players and then cull it to the squad



  • Not that it matters: the talent pool is so small that the necessary skills aren't there anyway



  • We have extended training camps. They'll select ~45 players and then cull it to the squad

    so unlike the tour when Wales were here, Damien McKenzie was with the ABs the whole time (he was wasnt he?) even though he didnt play, probably no intention of playing, but you'd have to say this is gonna do the kid the world of good!



  • By lifting their game, the ABs have put down a great marker for everyone to aspire to. The problem is, the NH have never reached those heights, and very rarely has anyone else in the SH done that either. 
     
    You can't ask the ABs to go into cruise mode, but at the same time how does anyone else improve?

    It's perhaps a bit like Steve Waugh's cricket team.



  • It's perhaps a bit like Steve Waugh's cricket team.

    Except when a few of them retired, we started to decline.
    You lost a bunch of players and nothing has changed.



  • so unlike the tour when Wales were here, Damien McKenzie was with the ABs the whole time (he was wasnt he?) even though he didnt play, probably no intention of playing, but you'd have to say this is gonna do the kid the world of good!
    No idea whether that was done, or even if that would work. Or if we can afford it.



  • Totally agree Nick. It's very easy to show concern for your arch enemy when he's lying in a ditch with a broken back and a corner post up his arse.
    As someone who left Aus in early 2001 seeing union riding high and league still reeling from super league, I was astonished to return to see that league is not only stronger than ever but that soccer is now ahead of union. There was a golden opportunity there. I recall the great Arthur Beetson commenting in the late 90s how heaps of kids were switching to union. Wtf happened? Personally I reckon one of the biggest farkups was expanding the number of super teams too quickly. All it did was dilute the talent and weaken the base. The NRC is a step forward but it should have happened years ago instead of that bullshit idea of a comp with the PIs that the IRC would pay for or getting Aus teams in the NPC. Union is supposed to be the game run by the smart, educated elite. You could have farking fooled me.
    Just with respect to Folau at centre. I don't think he has the distribution skills. When he passes he seems to wind up and fire the ball like a cannon no matter where his support is standing. Leave him at fullback.



  • No idea whether that was done, or even if that would work. Or if we can afford it.

    not saying it would, I know what works here wont necessarily work there, but in these instances it would appear a good move, and yeah I suppose cost comes into it, and the current run of results will be impacting the bottom line too.



  • Bottom line already hurting from player salaries!
    Although I just heard the players union will be asking for our Women's 7s to get paid the same as the men. Good move. Women's might be the only silver lining moving forward, and bring Olympic will help get it into schools



  • Totally agree Nick. It's very easy to show concern for your arch enemy when he's lying in a ditch with a broken back and a corner post up his arse.
    As someone who left Aus in early 2001 seeing union riding high and league still reeling from super league, I was astonished to return to see that league is not only stronger than ever but that soccer is now ahead of union. There was a golden opportunity there. I recall the great Arthur Beetson commenting in the late 90s how heaps of kids were switching to union. Wtf happened? Personally I reckon one of the biggest farkups was expanding the number of super teams too quickly. All it did was dilute the talent and weaken the base. The NRC is a step forward but it should have happened years ago instead of that bullshit idea of a comp with the PIs that the IRC would pay for or getting Aus teams in the NPC. Union is supposed to be the game run by the smart, educated elite. You could have farking fooled me.
    Just with respect to Folau at centre. I don't think he has the distribution skills. When he passes he seems to wind up and fire the ball like a cannon no matter where his support is standing. Leave him at fullback.

    First Haitch and now repeated use of union .... :think:.
     
    You can always tell a NZer who has lived in Oz for a long time as they call rugby, union. 
     
    On the NRC, I watched some of the game before the test, was some decent rugby played. Although because of the stupid NRC starting I had to watch the Magpies on a cabbage pop up non HD channel. Although, seeing that massacre in HD might have broken me.



  • You spelled "fuck" wrong. Bloody autocorrect aye?



  • First Haitch and now repeated use of union .... :think:.
    You can always tell a NZer who has lived in Oz for a long time as they call rugby, union.
    On the NRC, I watched some of the game before the test, was some decent rugby played. Although because of the stupid NRC starting I had to watch the Magpies on a cabbage pop up non HD channel. Although, seeing that massacre in HD might have broken me.

    Ah screw you. I was just trying to put it in simple terms for Nick to understand. He's from NSW you know.
    Yep, I watched some of the NRC before the main game. Some really positive rugby even if the execution wasn't always that flash. It's a good little comp and, broken record etc etc, should have been introduced years ago.



  • It WAS introduced years ago in one form, that admittedly wasn't well done. The Sydney clubs (and its own cost overruns) scuttled it.
     
    Now its back, despite the best efforts of the Sydney club competition, and will continue to fight like a little brother for prominence.

    Ah screw you. I was just trying to put it in simple terms for Nick to understand. He's from NSW you know.

    sigh like mariner, the issue is that living among Queenslanders has given you a false sense of superiority. It comes down to the chromosomes or lack thereof.
     
    For the record: Queenslanders aren't Australians.



  • Maybe they could try and poach more players while they develop a long term strategy to broaden their base and grow skills across the franchises?
     
    They're not exactly endearing themselves to anyone with the way they conduct themselves on and off the pitch.
     
    The Boks & Pumas are not particularly strong and it will be really interesting to see how they go against them.
     
    They need a proper 8 and a new captain, they need to build their back play around Folau ... imagine if he played for the ABs?? They need to find a way to increase his involvement 200%.



  • Worst thread ever....



  • It WAS introduced years ago in one form, that admittedly wasn't well done. The Sydney clubs (and its own cost overruns) scuttled it.
    Now its back, despite the best efforts of the Sydney club competition, and will continue to fight like a little brother for prominence.
    sigh like mariner, the issue is that living among Queenslanders has given you a false sense of superiority. It comes down to the chromosomes or lack thereof.
    For the record: Queenslanders aren't Australians.

    Pfft, false



  • Pfft, false

    And yet, you're a Queenslander but NOT Australian.
     
    So my theory holds water.

    Maybe they could try and poach more players while they develop a long term strategy to broaden their base and grow skills across the franchises?

    1. We already tried poaching players from league. It sort of worked, but didn't/
    2. Long-term strategies aren't an option in a pit full of vipers carrying knives. Yes I know vipers don't have hands, but these ones are quite good at backstabbing.


  • Having been at Highschool In Aust' during the late 90's - early 2000's when the Wallabies were last at the top and having to endure everything that went along withthat i don't care if they never win thr Bledisloe cup again.
    I think the recent discussions on how to fix them is a mix of things. A bit like the feeling a bully might get when they have left a nerd bloodied and broken on the ground, there isn't much point hurling more abuse, you just look like a dick then. But also a healthy dose of 'you guys are so shit and have no idea what you are doing, here are some tips that might make you less shit but we will still beat you.' I don't have an older brother but i would imagine there is plenty of patronising stuff like that while playing rugby/cricket in the backyard growing up.
    Having said that, here is my friendly advice. Which is Booboo mostly covered.

    • no more overseas players.
    • no more poopah
    • Drop moore
    • send a directive to the super teams to stop using a game plan that revolves around the rolling maul or scrumming for penalties.
    • work out a way to get the nrc on free to air tv. On one of the commercial channels, every game. Showing 1 game a week on foxtel isnt going to grow the game.
    • no more quade cooper
    • Give some young guys a go, they might actually use their lessons of defeat to improve in the future. The has beens in france aren't going to improve or learn.
      Oh and one more. Ditch Phil Kearns, his constant moaning can't be good for the growth of the game.


  • It WAS introduced years ago in one form, that admittedly wasn't well done. The Sydney clubs (and its own cost overruns) scuttled it.
    Now its back, despite the best efforts of the Sydney club competition, and will continue to fight like a little brother for prominence.
    sigh like mariner, the issue is that living among Queenslanders has given you a false sense of superiority. It comes down to the chromosomes or lack thereof.
    For the record: Queenslanders aren't Australians.

    It was basically designed to fail wasn't it? Was halfarsed at any rate.
    Yes Nick, NSW is much better. That's why so many of you pricks are moving up here. Why would they do that Nick?



  • It wasn't designed to succeed.

    Yes Nick, NSW is much better. That's why so many of you pricks are moving up here. Why would they do that Nick?

    Because its cheap as fuck. And there are idiots who will sell their houses for not much before NSW people knock that shit down and turn them into McMansions.



  • It wasn't designed to succeed.
    Because its cheap as fuck. And there are idiots who will sell their houses for not much before NSW people knock that shit down and turn them into McMansions.

    Well I guess it is cheap when you need 4 million bucks for half a shed and a hole for a shitter 50km outside of Sydney. What an awesome place.



  • Well I guess it is cheap when you need 4 million bucks for half a shed and a hole for a shitter 50km outside of Sydney. What an awesome place.

    Fuck oath. Worth every cent for not having Victorians or Queenslanders.



  • Fuck oath. Worth every cent for not having Victorians or Queenslanders.
    Look, its bad enough you guys making your own place an overpriced cesspit, but you don't have to try to recreate that here. It's beyond weird that people would bag a place out...and then move there. Sydney could be cheap as, but farked if Id live there. Would rather nail my balls to a moving car.



  • Can you Australians take your civil war to G&GR? 😉



  • It WAS introduced years ago in one form, that admittedly wasn't well done. The Sydney clubs (and its own cost overruns) scuttled it.
    Now its back, despite the best efforts of the Sydney club competition, and will continue to fight like a little brother for prominence.

    The NRC is a much better product for the viewing public. The ARU has managed to piss away fortunes mismanaging rugby. The worst problem was a lack of fta coverage.



  • And will continue to be



  • The NRC is a much better product for the viewing public.

    Should add - it also alerts the club players to the fact their fitness is nowhere good enough to hang with the full professionals.



  • Would rather nail my balls to a moving car.Sadly moving cars are quite difficult to find in Sydney traffic.



  • Sadly moving cars are quite difficult to find in Sydney traffic.

    Hey! Take that over to the driverless cars thread!


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