@Machpants Aside from the disappointment of not being able to actually attend, this isn't a terrible outcome for NZ. Any Covid related risk is born by NSW but NZRU still get a slice of the gate receipts.

@NTA This makes perfect sense from a Kiwi perspective but little to none from an Australian perspective.

Many Australian fans at this stage want to ditch SR altogether and start from scratch (verging on a majority). So any proposed TT comp is already starting at a low base of support. We are then required to cut two teams (presumably excluding Twiggy's Force over cutting one of the more traditional franchises) to be allowed to participate in what will effectively be an exercise in All Black production. I'm failing to see the incentive.

Most people argue that one of the biggest contributing factors to the decline of SR in Aus is the lack of local derbies/home games and local content. A 5/3 split will represent a marginal improvement over the current format - but will cut 2/5ths of the Australian market from the comp. A poor trade off.

It's no sure thing that cutting two teams will magically make the other three stronger, either. Plenty of players will simply leave for Japan or Europe and the financial and marketing damage done in the process would, in my opinion, be a terminal move for the remaining Australian teams - before a ball is even kicked.

The inconsistency of suggesting that we must cut two teams but the comp must also include a PI team is also pretty frustrating. What are the odds of a PI team (after the majority of the funds get siphoned off by the likes of Killer Keane) actually being competitive?

Finally, Twiggy has regularly expressed an interest in pumping considerable investment into a competition with a single management body that is run in it's own interests (rather than being primarily run for the purposes of Wallaby and AB production). There have also been expressions of interest from PE firms in the US. McLellan has expressed an interest in releasing control of the second tier of Australian rugby to private equity. Given the rather enormous trade-offs involved in us participating in an 8 (or 9) team TT comp - why wouldn't we pursue this option?

Word is a NZ only comp is not financially viable so i don't get why a string of senior NZ figures are trying to strong arm Aus into a format that makes absolutely no sense to them?

@nzzp the reality is NZ need teams to play and in a Covid fucked world Australia is the most likely (and probably the only realistic) source of those teams. This gives Australia some leverage, though Australia need NZ just as much.

The 'competitiveness' argument is bullshit as evidenced by NZRU's posturing for a Japanese/Pasifika team. Yep, those teams will really bring the high quality NZ so desire.

It's all bullshit posturing and ego. The reality is both countries need each other and the simplest solution (at least for next year) is to incorporate the 10 already existing teams most likely to be able to play each other into a single competition.

Financial limitations and travel restrictions make anything else highly unlikely to be viable. It's worth keeping in mind that 2021 is just going to be another stop-gap, regardless of what is agreed.

If ego stops a TT going ahead, well both nations deserve what they get.

@shark I agree with this. I think there are loads of latent fans that just switched off because Rugby management in Aus couldnt run a piss up in a brothel and it's been run into the ground. If we could:

a) get our best players back;
b) get the bigger games on FTA with effective marketing;
c) win the occasional thing; and
d) deport Phil Kearns

the crowds would come back, and quickly.

Only 20 years ago that the Bled was played in front of 110k.

@Chris-B It was post the 2015 WC which saw our biggest player exodus. To premise the future of an entire competition on a bad patch of about 2 years seems ridiculous, though our results and performance were terrible in that period.

Our next crop of players look far more promising, outperforming their NZ counterparts so far. Raelene put a lot of work into securing our talent before it got poached by loig and results had looked to be improving this season.

@Snowy My point is that the dip in form post RWC15 was due to the player drain and that prior to that results had been reasonable. Following that, RC did work to secure talent pathways which is already reaping dividends and results had been improving. Hell, even the much derided Rebels beat the Highlanders away this year. The Brumbies also knocking off the in-form Chiefs.

To predicate the structure of the entire competition on the lack of performance post RWC15 would be silly, IMO. Particularly when the other 4 NZ teams have themselves not demonstrated that they can compete with the Crusaders on a regular basis anyway.

Im basically pointing out that the prevailing assumption that 'Aussie teams are all garbage' and 'NZ teams are amazing and constantly competitive' is pretty flawed.

@booboo NRZ seemed to conclude pretty early that a 5 team comp is not sustainable - so they need some additional teams. Obviously they just want the Tahs/Brumbies/Reds without having to worry about the Rebels or Force.

Issue is, it would be suicide for RA to exclude both those teams again. So they won't budge on the 5 team minimum. Hence the deadlock.

Both countries need each other in some capacity and both unions have ego's the size of celestial bodies.

In terms of market size - yeah the Australian market is currently smaller. But NZ is at saturation. It can't get any bigger. Rugby has previously been bigger in Australia and clearly has the capacity to improve with some half decent management (good luck finding that though).

@Kiwiwomble Yeah but then you are limiting your audience and any potential growth. It was tremendously damaging to the game in Australia to cut the Force. They were the fastest growing area of rugby in terms of viewership and grassroots and boast the only billionaire benefactor around in the Southern Hemisphere. Sure they hadnt achieved anything particularly amazing yet but, as you say, these things take decades not years.

@Billy-Tell Australia won the comp twice with 5 teams.

@Stargazer I doubt they'd manufacture direct quotes though. That's treading into defamation territory.

Big talk but chances that NZRU jeopardize a huge amount of income because their employess will miss Christmas? doubt it.

@mariner4life i dunno, if Rennie cant manage a pretty dramatic turnaround in form your B team would probably still beat the Wallabies more often than not

why do they even need to quarantine on their way back? they never leave the bubble. Pretty sure no league or AFL players have tested positive whilst in a bubble.

@KiwiMurph more he said she said nonsense.

This whole thing has exposed both Unions as grossly inept. At least we already knew RA were.

@Bovidae irrelevant to TRC as it is dependent on the international window for player release.

@Kirwan how did you come to that conclusion? RA agreed and South Afric and Argentina vetoed NZs preference.

Thats what the article says, anyway.

It also said NZ turned down the exact same request when RA made it. Which seems fairly hypocritical to me.

@shark cant you cross the border if your residence is in Qld? . Just have to quarantine.

All squads will do two weeks quarantine in a 'bubble' - the same thing the AFL and NRL have been doing.

The border is likely to be open by the time the RC kicks off.

As for public sentiment? They lost that months ago.

As if NZ have the patience to make a Blues duplicate work. It's a 20 year+ exercise. You lot are already throwing your toys out the pram at having to play the Rebels and Force.

@Machpants Aside from the disappointment of not being able to actually attend, this isn't a terrible outcome for NZ. Any Covid related risk is born by NSW but NZRU still get a slice of the gate receipts.

@mariner4life righto buddy. I have been trying to engage meaningfully, and you are in fact acting like an arrogant kiwi.