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Happened 15 years ago, we just overthrew the government till we got one we liked (this guy). We just have to do that again before they all blow up their lilo's. Luckily ISIS doesn't live next door.. oh....
It'll only get worse, thanks to Chinas fake global warming pretty much all of north africa & the middle east will be emigrating in the next 20 years. And they ain't going south.
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@gollum said in US Election Thread 2016:
Happened 15 years ago, we just overthrew the government till we got one we liked (this guy). We just have to do that again before they all blow up their lilo's. Luckily ISIS doesn't live next door.. oh....
It'll only get worse, thanks to Chinas fake global warming pretty much all of north africa & the middle east will be emigrating in the next 20 years. And they ain't going south.
Yep it's global warming what's done it. Ffs.
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@Frank said in US Election Thread 2016:
@reprobate
Change white guilt to liberal guilt then if you are so offended by it. White guilt works better for me.I'll bring race into it where and when I want.
go for it frank, that is your prerogative - just as it is mine to say that it is racist to do so.
free speech is good like that eh. -
@reprobate said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Frank said in US Election Thread 2016:
@reprobate
Change white guilt to liberal guilt then if you are so offended by it. White guilt works better for me.I'll bring race into it where and when I want.
go for it frank, that is your prerogative - just as it is mine to say that it is racist to do so.
free speech is good like that eh.So it's racist to claim that white guilt is involved when supporting illegal immigration? I don't agree with that and think there are a number of factors that led them to this situation, but how the hell is that racist?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel
It's racist if an avowed Trump supporter says it. -
@Frank yeah that must be it. i hate all trump supporters, and everything they say, and trump himself, and everything he says.
despite my first sentence on the subject being in support of a strong stance against illegal immigration; there's one of us who supports a person rather than policies, and it's not me. -
@Rancid-Schnitzel the racism is in the assumptions and implications. what even is white guilt? it doesn't exist as far as i'm aware. it is a phrase used to belittle people who give enough of a shit about others to recognise that there are variations in opportunity, and that the world might be better off if everybody is given more opportunity.
nobody with half a brain feels guilty about things their ancestors did. they simply recognise that there are consequent problems and solving them might be a good idea, because those problems affect the whole of society.
there are a couple of assumptions necessary to use the phrase in this context. one is that white people make the decisions for other races (despite the president being a black man). it's also identity politics. the other implied assumption is that this is an us vs them situation - some of 'us' white people feel guilty and are siding with 'them'. it shouldn't be that, and that's pretty racist.
to me it ought to be about the law, which applies to everyone. there are humanitarian concerns in terms of uprooting families who have been there a long time - and i think it is only human to consider these, though i would not be gentle on it myself. more importantly there are huge economic and logistical concerns because of the scale of the problem. why should race even be mentioned in the discourse? -
@reprobate I'd use it as a phrase to belittle people that make everything about race.
To the first half of your post - we already have equality of oppotunity in Western countries. If you are poor, then you have some extra challenges to overcome, but there is no system or law in place to stop you achieving what you want. Race is not a barrier to success.
To the second half - agree, it should be about the law. And the law says a fuckload of those people are there illegally. Which is both shit for the USA, and shit for all the people wanting to move there legally but cannot as there are already too many illegals. It's pretty obvious Trump wants to secure the border, but that doesn't solve the problem of the millions of illegal immigrants already there. I don't think anyone has a good answer to that.
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@No-Quarter said in US Election Thread 2016:
It's pretty obvious Trump wants to secure the border, but that doesn't solve the problem of the millions of illegal immigrants already there. I don't think anyone has a good answer to that.
Particularly when so many illegal immigrants arrive at airports..
I suspect congress will resurrect Romney's eVerify proposal (which ironically Trump complained about at the time as being too harsh)
Libertarian leaning Republicans won't be too happy about the additional Government intrusion, but it'd still pass IMOThat, plus a few public examples of people getting prosecuted for hiring under the table workers might get the 'self deportation' ball rolling.
Edit: here is 2012 Trump complaining about the Republicans being too harsh on immigration
http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/trump-romneys-crazy-policy-of-self-deportation-cost-votes-084238 -
@reprobate said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Rancid-Schnitzel the racism is in the assumptions and implications. what even is white guilt? it doesn't exist as far as i'm aware. it is a phrase used to belittle people who give enough of a shit about others to recognise that there are variations in opportunity, and that the world might be better off if everybody is given more opportunity.
nobody with half a brain feels guilty about things their ancestors did. they simply recognise that there are consequent problems and solving them might be a good idea, because those problems affect the whole of society.
there are a couple of assumptions necessary to use the phrase in this context. one is that white people make the decisions for other races (despite the president being a black man). it's also identity politics. the other implied assumption is that this is an us vs them situation - some of 'us' white people feel guilty and are siding with 'them'. it shouldn't be that, and that's pretty racist.
to me it ought to be about the law, which applies to everyone. there are humanitarian concerns in terms of uprooting families who have been there a long time - and i think it is only human to consider these, though i would not be gentle on it myself. more importantly there are huge economic and logistical concerns because of the scale of the problem. why should race even be mentioned in the discourse?Yes it does exist and it's ridiculous to claim otherwise. Again I don't agree that this is all down to white guilt (a claim I believe was withdrawn), but it's hardly racist to claim that. Seems you think asserting white guilt means people of other races don't give a shit, which is a bit of a stretch.
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It is a shame that the regressive left are throwing the accusation of racism around so much that it is losing all meaning.
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@Frank said in US Election Thread 2016:
White guilt is a disease of the left. A close cousin of white privilege. When I use it, it has nothing to do with wanting equality of opportunity etc. It means unjustified guilt.
okay then frank, then why do white people feel guilt re illegal immigrants to the USA?
they just don't; it's an invention.
do only white people have unjustified guilt? what does black guilt look like? -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Election Thread 2016:
It is a shame that the regressive left are throwing the accusation of racism around so much that it is losing all meaning.
there are shades baron. obviously things in the west have come a hell of a long way, which means that the racism that still exists is tiny by comparison to that of the past - to the extent that often the people doing it are unaware that they are - it is still worth recognising and addressing though.
it's kind of a good thing that it doesn't mean lynching and slavery anymore. -
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Election Thread 2016:
Apparently it isn't Trump. Perhaps he was triggered by the word "white".
yeah that's right mate. every time someone disagrees with you it's because they are triggered or offended. that's just your way of trying to shut down dissenting opinions.
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@No-Quarter said in US Election Thread 2016:
@reprobate I'd use it as a phrase to belittle people that make everything about race.
To the first half of your post - we already have equality of oppotunity in Western countries. If you are poor, then you have some extra challenges to overcome, but there is no system or law in place to stop you achieving what you want. Race is not a barrier to success.
To the second half - agree, it should be about the law. And the law says a fuckload of those people are there illegally. Which is both shit for the USA, and shit for all the people wanting to move there legally but cannot as there are already too many illegals. It's pretty obvious Trump wants to secure the border, but that doesn't solve the problem of the millions of illegal immigrants already there. I don't think anyone has a good answer to that.
yeah i know your stance on the first point, it's one that i have a degree of sympathy with - but i just don't think it is reasonable to ignore the part that people's family backgrounds play in their success - and that can often be a multi-generational thing: wealth, education, expectations of academic and business success vs poverty and lack of education, hope or aspiration.
i think that is a fact, and it is worth recognising. what to do about it, and whether some measures do more harm than good is a different and very complicated question. -
@reprobate said in US Election Thread 2016:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Election Thread 2016:
Apparently it isn't Trump. Perhaps he was triggered by the word "white".
yeah that's right mate. every time someone disagrees with you it's because they are triggered or offended. that's just your way of trying to shut down dissenting opinions.
What complete and utter nonsense. In what way was I trying to shut down a dissenting opinion?
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