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@mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:
the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.
Chuck in sky with the works. 2 iPhones, a family holiday to the Gold Coast every couple years.
Doesn't cover everyone but I'm certain there's couples/families out there that would have a chance if they could show some financial sense and live beyond their means -
@Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:
@mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:
the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.
Chuck in sky with the works. 2 iPhones, a family holiday to the Gold Coast every couple
years.months
Doesn't cover everyone but I'm certain there's couples/families out there that would have a chance if they could show some financial sense and live beyond their meansFixed it. I'm not saying that people should hold back on what they spend if they don't want to, but he is right to say that comparing to previous generations isn't right. Can you imagine 20% plus interest rates!!
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@Virgil indeed. However these arguments very rarely focus on those who could find a way, but rather paint every aspiring property purchaser with the same brush, circumstances be damned.
You can't blame the baby boomers for $1M 3-bedroom cottages half an hour from the CBD, and not every aspiring home-owner can't get a deposit together because they want to keep living "the life" (and i wouldn't call all of those things you list as outrageous expenditure either).
The missus and I are currently saving a heap to pay for our new house (fucking build costs go up every time you turn around) because we couldn't sell our old one for enough. We're on decent money, and sticking away a lot, but even then, it would take years to save a 20% deposit at our current rate. That's got to be disheartening for some people, especially given the whole time they are saving, prices keep going up at huge rates.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Yeah - for a lot of the time imported electrical goods had huge tariffs on them - and lots of them were pretty shit, to boot!
I've got an old ChCh Press newspaper from 1970 that I just dug out to have a look at some relativities.
The Ashburton Power Board was advertising for a registered electrician who they were going to pay $3450 p.a. (presumably gross) so that guy would have taken home $45-50 per week. A typist's job was advertised at $1100-2350 depending on experience.
You could buy a two bedroom flat in Papanui for $12,000 or a 4 bedroom house in Fendalton for $26,000.
A 1962 Vanguard would set you back $1150. You could get a Hoover Super Constellation Vacuum Cleaner for $65, a Zip Thermaglo radiant heater for $34, and an average Atlas range for about $180. A tin of apricot halves were on special at 23c.
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I always wonder how people know who amongst their fellow cafe dwellers guzzling lattes and eating smashed avos by the boxful are the ones who are or aren't saving for a home deposit.
Or whether it's the first time they've been in a cafe in months...
I can remember plenty of people buying teles last time unemployment peaked in 2009 and we were running regional job summits too... but they weren't necessarily one and the same people...
20% interest rates and bread costing tuppeny ha'penny make for wonderful nostalgic rants for fossils on talkback radio... but a comparison to when 12- 15 years ago you could get a reasonable 3 bedroom house in the Tron for 150 - 170k at 6% interest rates might be another comparison for the much-maligned 'youth of today'.
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Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation. -
@Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:
Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.That first home that you paid $235k for in 2009... is it still anywhere near that price vicinity now?
I wonder how many of us would get into our same first homes now - with current house prices and current salaries. I'm not sure that we would have anywhere near as quickly... and I am thinking a fairly basic 90sqm house there before @Virgil starts muttering about the feckless Gen Y from the vantage point of his mobility scooter
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@Virgil i call bullshit on that last line, that seems as easy to say as "too much smashed avo".
You are right on part though, your first house should be a step down on what you actually want. But it is sometimes a massive call to save for that, spend what is still a lot of money, and then sign yourself up for 6.5 hours in the car a week. And that's just to get to work, let alone to see your friends on the weekend, play for your sports club... Change jobs, make new friends, get a new club. Those are big life decisions that moving that far afield may well require.
People are very big on telling other people what they need to do, especially if they don't need to do it themselves (that's not directed at you Virgil, but at these arguments in their entirety)
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@Donsteppa said in Housing hornets' nest:
@Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:
Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.That first home that you paid $235k for in 2009... is it still anywhere near that price vicinity now?
I wonder how many of us would get into our same first homes now - with current house prices and current salaries. I'm not sure that we would have anywhere near as quickly... and I am thinking a fairly basic 90sqm house there before @Virgil starts muttering about the feckless Gen Y from the vantage point of his mobility scooter
Sold it 2 years ago for $425k
It's going to here but the prices are noting compared to the rest of Auckland.
You don't need to spend $800 - $900k and more for a home. -
@Donsteppa i could, but only because the prices here stagnated just after i purchased (fucking GFC fucked Cairns). I sold it last year but only made about $25k (despite doing a heap of work around it).
That said, when we bought it, i was able to borrow 95%, and the first home owners grant was the bulk of my deposit. The banks changed their policies not long after that.
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@Donsteppa said in Housing hornets' nest:
@Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:
Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.That first home that you paid $235k for in 2009... is it still anywhere near that price vicinity now?
I wonder how many of us would get into our same first homes now - with current house prices and current salaries. I'm not sure that we would have anywhere near as quickly... and I am thinking a fairly basic 90sqm house there before @Virgil starts muttering about the feckless Gen Y from the vantage point of his mobility scooter
I'm not sure whether I could get back into it now but I felt sorry for the poor bastard that bought it off me. I sold it in December 2007 he tried to sell it in 2009 for what
he paid me after he recarpeted the place and put in a new kitchen. Ouch.Took me me two years of working every weekend and through Xmas to come up with the deposit and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.
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@mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:
the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.
Do you go the smashed avocado before or after the dildo?
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Did anyone see the Nigel Latta show on money recently? Was pretty interesting, talked about how human's rarely make rational, logical decisions with money, but rather emotional decisions that don't make financial sense. Had an accountant on there who said he was awesome with other people's money because there was no emotion involved but was terrible with his own money.
It's pretty easy to make the argument that other people could just not do xyz and they'd have more money, and it's true enough, but human's are not robots so someone actually making the decision to live on the absolute bones of their arse for the next 5 or so years to save for a shitty house miles away from the CBD is not easy to do. Especially when life is so short/fragile a lot of people choose to experience as much as possible while they're still young and fit.
The problem with these arguments is that they always generalise people that have completely different lives. Different backgrounds, different wants and needs, different outlooks and make their decisions based on that. For example there was an article today about a 21 year old woman that bought a house in Feilding. Good for her but personally I'd rather pay through my teeth to live in Auckland than live in fucking Feilding....
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@No-Quarter I can't stand Latta but what you posted sounds pretty similar to the Minimilists doco on Netflix which was well worth watching .
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@jegga said in Housing hornets' nest:
Took me me two years of working every weekend and through Xmas to come up with the deposit and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.
Place across the road, which is pretty similar to mine, sold 18 months ago to people who are about the same age as when I bought mine in 2001. So I doubtless could, but not with the same degree of equity.
Did similar to Jegga - except was working overseas for three years in a job that was paying a lot of US$ and, crucially, the exchange rate was hovering around 0.40. Worked and saved like a maniac, kissed the arses of a lot of total c#nts, nailed it up and took the cash - and wrote a cheque for this place. The extensive self medicating of that period will doubtless come back to bite me...
Variation on that model would be to work and save Auckland salaries to buy in Dunedin, where it seems you can still get decent places for, say, $350K.
Can't see why anyone would want to be a first home buyer in Auckland at present. Especially considering my key economic theory that crashes come in years with sevens in them (in the same way that defeats to England come in years with threes).
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We bought our house in 2013 in Bromley which is about 10 minutes from the Chch CBD, but since it's the eastern side of Chch, it's not a desireable part of town, so we got a 3 bedroom house and garage for $300,000. Kiwisaver and the first home grant for the deposit.
However, we have two full-time incomes and no children, so there's a big leg up, but also a biological ticking time bomb which may end up costing the taxpayer a packet for fertility treatment...
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@mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:
the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.
It's more the principle than the latte. If people buy a latte a day, they might waste their money on other things too. At the end of the day, most people have to make sacrifices. Most people can't have it all.
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I'm kind of in two minds on this argument.
FUCKING WHINERS ARGUMENT
I give @Virgil a thumbs up on the "fucking kids don't know how to sacrifice these days!" because I do see a lot of them paying stupid amounts of rent BUT still being able to afford an overseas holiday every year. Then bitching because they can't afford to live where they want i.e. Newtown in trendy boho inner-city Sydney.News flash, fuckers: there are houses you can afford, but not where you want to live. And especially if you're single.
SYMPATHETIC MIDDLE AGED GUY ARGUMENT
Real estate in Sydney is more mental than Donald Trump on bath salts. We bought our first house in late 2000 for under $270K. Put a second storey on it 6 years later for $95K and then sold in 2013 for $590K.Sounds great except the place we moved to was $790K. But its now in a suburb with a median price of about $1M, despite being an hour from the CBD by public transport, which is (as I said) mental.
IN SUMMARY
I'm jealous of those kids and their lifestyle and their trips overseas and whatnot. I have to wait until I'm retired for that shit, whereupon I'll be too old to enjoy a coke-fuelled trip through South American anyway.
BUT if you're going to go rack up some awesome experiences, they're going to cost money, and you can't have it all.
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@taniwharugby said in Housing hornets' nest:
@NTA apparently your kids are more than wealth, they complete your life, once you have them, you dont need anything else (least you cant afford it so you convince yourself thats the truth)
Says people with lots of kids and little money
Housing hornets' nest