Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz
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@mariner4life Well I'm a curmudgeonly old fluffybunny. When I first went to Whangarei Boys' in 1973 we weren't allowed long hair. Short back and sides only.
The school used exactly the same arguments about preparing young men for the harsh world outside that was full of rules we wouldn't like. It was character building. It was about respect for the school, the community, and ourselves. Long hair was dirty (by which standard the Girl's High up the road must have been quite the filthy pit). It was dangerous because we might have to use machinery in woodwork class. In rugby matches other players wouldn't be able to help themselves from pulling it.
They were horseshit arguments then and they still are now. The rule was in fact arbitrary and served no purpose. Later that year they relented because Mums called them out. Just like this case, they used the local newspaper. At a meeting my own Mum told them rules were fine, but don't try and enforce your prejudices on kids, it just shows you up as small-minded and mean. Yay Mum.
Frankly I can't believe that nearly 45 years later the same arguments are still going on. Schools need rules, but they don't need to be piston wristed gibbons about it.
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@canefan because you don't give a stuff if you look different to all the kids with the current 'trend' of razor cuts or SBW whatever is on flek, or lit or hundy or whatever the current lingo is.
imo part of 'fitting in' is coming to a realisation that folks are different and that's ok. Look at the huge sea change around guys dancing for instance. In my day you'd have been called gay while getting pummeled, even if it was hip hop or something.
Now heaps of guys are into dancing and they get rep for it... in saying that I still think ballroom or rock'n'roll dancing would get you beats!
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His hair is so 90s. These days all the kids have those Hitler Jugend haircuts.
Back on trannies in sport. I don't know what the guidelines or rules are now, but if Bruce Jenner had won his gold medal, say in London 2012, could he then have had his operation and then competed as Kaitlin Jenner at Rio in 2016?
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@JC don't think the rules ever changed, just the enforcement of them...I know there was a bit of a kerfuffle about one kid in form 3 who had 5 o'clock shadow by 10am and if he didn't shave for 3 days he had a full beard...they let it slide.
As a midget through most of my schooling, I did everything I could to blend in, or more, not stand out.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
His hair is so 90s
MMMBop
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On the whole, I could care less about the hair length. It's a poor example in a wider issue...
What will amuse me is that somewhere in a few weeks time a post will pop up on TSF based on an article somewhere lamenting how many 'unemployable' people we have out there, and/or why there are so many ferals. The laments will then range through the likes of "Lack of discipline in schools! Lack of parental guidance!" "Why do we have to bring in 'so many' immigrants because Kiwi's won't do the work.."! "Why can't they just follow instructions and turn up to work on time each day? Looking tidy!" "Precious snowflakes who aren't used to being told what to do!" "Bloody builders won't turn up on time! Stop fishing and surfing you bastards" Let alone the 'drug free' stuff... "Ferals!"
And I'm a grumpy old bastard about because I have to hear variations on those laments about 'youth of today' and 'Kiwi workers' etc on a regular basis...
... if only they'd learned to follow rules and/or basic instructions...
Hair length may indeed be the dumbest rule since prohibition, but it's not worth going to the Ferald over either.
It would help if schools did choose rules worth firmly drawing the line on I suppose...
The world is changing and will continue to do so. But why limit yourself as some of the top employers will continue to pick and choose. Because they can. As one example, the kids who want to work in tourism for one of the major airlines are going to find things won't change in the way that they will for @mariner4life's mom & pop business. Kids love the idea of getting into tourism or travel a little too much, but I just can't see Emirates or Singapore Airlines and co ever hiring cabin crew with facial or neck tattoos... or facial hair... or hiring bearded hipsters who demand organic gluten-free WiFi for that matter...
And now the kid is Googlable in the Ferald... the reason for which many employers won't care about, some might, and some recruiters looking for any reason to make their long list one person shorter and their afternoon easier, have just found another potential reason to cross one name off. Not really worth a rule on hair, and not worth being in the Ferald over either.
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@Paekakboyz said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan because you don't give a stuff if you look different to all the kids with the current 'trend' of razor cuts or SBW whatever is on flek, or lit or hundy or whatever the current lingo is.
imo part of 'fitting in' is coming to a realisation that folks are different and that's ok. Look at the huge sea change around guys dancing for instance. In my day you'd have been called gay while getting pummeled, even if it was hip hop or something.
Now heaps of guys are into dancing and they get rep for it... in saying that I still think ballroom or rock'n'roll dancing would get you beats!
Did they still have musicals when you were at Kapiti? One of my mates signed up for Grease which was a bit out of character , we didn't give him shit about it but it we did after the musical he let slip there was 10 girls with dancers figures to every guy and even a munter like him could score in a target rich environment like that.
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@Donsteppa said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
On the whole, I could care less about the hair length. It's a poor example in a wider issue...
What will amuse me is that somewhere in a few weeks time a post will pop up on TSF based on an article somewhere lamenting how many 'unemployable' people we have out there, and/or why there are so many ferals. The laments will then range through the likes of "Lack of discipline in schools! Lack of parental guidance!" "Why do we have to bring in 'so many' immigrants because Kiwi's won't do the work.."! "Why can't they just follow instructions and turn up to work on time each day? Looking tidy!" "Precious snowflakes who aren't used to being told what to do!" "Bloody builders won't turn up on time! Stop fishing and surfing you bastards" Let alone the 'drug free' stuff... "Ferals!"
And I'm a grumpy old bastard about because I have to hear variations on those laments about 'youth of today' and 'Kiwi workers' etc on a regular basis...
... if only they'd learned to follow rules and/or basic instructions...
Hair length may indeed be the dumbest rule since prohibition, but it's not worth going to the Ferald over either.
It would help if schools did choose rules worth firmly drawing the line on I suppose...
The world is changing and will continue to do so. But why limit yourself as some of the top employers will continue to pick and choose. Because they can. As one example, the kids who want to work in tourism for one of the major airlines are going to find things won't change in the way that they will for @mariner4life's mom & pop business. Kids love the idea of getting into tourism or travel a little too much, but I just can't see Emirates or Singapore Airlines and co ever hiring cabin crew with facial or neck tattoos... or facial hair... or hiring bearded hipsters who demand organic gluten-free WiFi for that matter...
And now the kid is Googlable in the Ferald... the reason for which many employers won't care about, some might, and some recruiters looking for any reason to make their long list one person shorter and their afternoon easier, have just found another potential reason to cross one name off. Not really worth a rule on hair, and not worth being in the Ferald over either.
Dad? Is that you?
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This kid is going to have a hard time in life if this is the attitude he is being instilled with.
Life as an adult is about adapting and being a bit of a chameleon, some of the highest flyers I know are complete and utter muppets when hanging with the mates form the 'ole days'..... I know some guys who look like a member of the Sons of Anarchy with a shirt off and look like finely cut gentlemen with a business shirt on.
Newsflash to this youngster and the people in this thread defending him, society makes arbitrary and no logical rules/social norms all the time, and nearly everyone follows them, of course you don't have to, but there are always consequences, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
He wants to look like Hansen.. fine. Go to a school that allows that.
This isn't about the length of his hair, this is about him wanting the school to bend to his wishes rather than the other way around. -
@jegga said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@Donsteppa said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
On the whole, I could care less about the hair length. It's a poor example in a wider issue...
What will amuse me is that somewhere in a few weeks time a post will pop up on TSF based on an article somewhere lamenting how many 'unemployable' people we have out there, and/or why there are so many ferals. The laments will then range through the likes of "Lack of discipline in schools! Lack of parental guidance!" "Why do we have to bring in 'so many' immigrants because Kiwi's won't do the work.."! "Why can't they just follow instructions and turn up to work on time each day? Looking tidy!" "Precious snowflakes who aren't used to being told what to do!" "Bloody builders won't turn up on time! Stop fishing and surfing you bastards" Let alone the 'drug free' stuff... "Ferals!"
And I'm a grumpy old bastard about because I have to hear variations on those laments about 'youth of today' and 'Kiwi workers' etc on a regular basis...
... if only they'd learned to follow rules and/or basic instructions...
Hair length may indeed be the dumbest rule since prohibition, but it's not worth going to the Ferald over either.
It would help if schools did choose rules worth firmly drawing the line on I suppose...
The world is changing and will continue to do so. But why limit yourself as some of the top employers will continue to pick and choose. Because they can. As one example, the kids who want to work in tourism for one of the major airlines are going to find things won't change in the way that they will for @mariner4life's mom & pop business. Kids love the idea of getting into tourism or travel a little too much, but I just can't see Emirates or Singapore Airlines and co ever hiring cabin crew with facial or neck tattoos... or facial hair... or hiring bearded hipsters who demand organic gluten-free WiFi for that matter...
And now the kid is Googlable in the Ferald... the reason for which many employers won't care about, some might, and some recruiters looking for any reason to make their long list one person shorter and their afternoon easier, have just found another potential reason to cross one name off. Not really worth a rule on hair, and not worth being in the Ferald over either.
Dad? Is that you?
I'll shut up as soon as you get me my pipe and slippers. And a nice mug of milky tea...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
This kid is going to have a hard time in life if this is the attitude he is being instilled with.
Life as an adult is about adapting and being a bit of a chameleon, some of the highest flyers I know are complete and utter muppets when hanging with the mates form the 'ole days'..... I know some guys who look like a member of the Sons of Anarchy with a shirt off and look like finely cut gentlemen with a business shirt on.
Newsflash to this youngster and the people in this thread defending him, society makes arbitrary and no logical rules/social norms all the time, and nearly everyone follows them, of course you don't have to, but there are always consequences, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
He wants to look like Hansen.. fine. Go to a school that allows that.
This isn't about the length of his hair, this is about him wanting the school to bend to his wishes rather than the other way around.He's a terrific coach but I have no idea why someone would want to look like Hansen....
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Why is this even news?
"I wouldn't allow James to attend a school that still applies the same rules that resulted in his grandfather's expulsion fifty years ago," she said.
That's what the kid's mum was quoted as saying. So why is she pushing to get the kid into such a school. Or is she just sounding off on some crusade?
Oh and the kid never even met the grandad
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@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Why is this even news?
"I wouldn't allow James to attend a school that still applies the same rules that resulted in his grandfather's expulsion fifty years ago," she said.
That's what the kid's mum was quoted as saying. So why is she pushing to get the kid into such a school. Or is she just sounding off on some crusade?
I think the point is more that she is highlighting their absurdity and why not? You don't get change in society by acceptance of what you think is wrong. She's made her point and the kid will probably now go to another school. She stated that was so in that article. No legal fight or campaign or demand for entitlement. Just using the local rag for a quick soapbox to possibly make people think about the (non) issue.
As for the points about job limitation, well they are just silly. Sure there are jobs that have certain requirements but they are becoming more and more the odd ones out. I look around me in London (which is still part of conservative England) and side by side there are the conformists in the ultra conservative industries and the non conformists also doing very well having decided that if the rules are going to include them they will just do their own thing and employ like minded people. These apparently limited tattooed, bearded, nose pierced, blue haired unemployable people have thriving businesses.
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@Crucial Why is it an absurdity? It's a standard of dress that the school wants to enforce - like uniform/shoe type etc. People may not agree with it but a school can set their own standards and if a student wants to go there then they know that going in.
As for change in society - there are a number of schools in Auckland where she can send her kid which will allow him to have his hair long. So that is really bollocks.
Agree with you about job limitation stuff being silly, but as silly as above to me.
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I could be wrong but I thought the comments about his future employment prospects were about the fact a google search will turn up this inane story? You'd think a future employer would probably ignore something like this in an 11 year old, less likely with the teenager who took his school to court though.
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@Crucial said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@canefan said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
Why is this even news?
"I wouldn't allow James to attend a school that still applies the same rules that resulted in his grandfather's expulsion fifty years ago," she said.
That's what the kid's mum was quoted as saying. So why is she pushing to get the kid into such a school. Or is she just sounding off on some crusade?
I think the point is more that she is highlighting their absurdity and why not? You don't get change in society by acceptance of what you think is wrong. She's made her point and the kid will probably now go to another school. She stated that was so in that article. No legal fight or campaign or demand for entitlement. Just using the local rag for a quick soapbox to possibly make people think about the (non) issue.
As for the points about job limitation, well they are just silly. Sure there are jobs that have certain requirements but they are becoming more and more the odd ones out. I look around me in London (which is still part of conservative England) and side by side there are the conformists in the ultra conservative industries and the non conformists also doing very well having decided that if the rules are going to include them they will just do their own thing and employ like minded people. These apparently limited tattooed, bearded, nose pierced, blue haired unemployable people have thriving businesses.
You need to re read the article, it has changed. There is def a fight/campaign and demand for enititlement.. just as many of us suspected this was.
"Hunt said James would be devastated if he had to cut his hair.
"It's his identity."
"This rule has got to go," she said.
Heidi Hunt's letter to the school referred to the suspension of 16-year-old student Lucan Battison in 2014. "
"Hunt said although a school's Board of Trustees may have complete discretion to control the management of a school as it sees fit, they don't have the authority to impose a school rule that applies to hours or activities outside of school time. "
And the points about job limitation are not silly. Everyone who has worked has had to do things that they think are silly or pointless... usually because they are not high enough up the food chain to know the reasoning.
Boss says do Job A, then Job B, then Job C,... now your youngster might think it makes more sense to do Job B, first, and from his perspective it might do. But he doesn't have the perspective, experience or possibly qualifications to make that call. Or sometimes peoples logic dont match, and sometimes bosses just make stupid decisions.. and when you are low on the food chain.. you suck it up.
Just because something is supposedly illogical for one person, or even a group of people, doesn't mean it needs to change.
There is a rule for the school, that is a fact. If you dont like that rule, you have other options.. that is a fact. Everything else is just opinion and preference.
Now I think the argument you are making is that it should be ok to voice that opinion. I agree to the extent that you don't put your kid on the national press and make a crusade for change over it... bringing in your dead grandfather... is just extra cringe.
It is my opinion that this is just a case of inter-genreational 'fuck you, you don't tell me what to do!! attitudes. And the response needs to be' Fuck off then' That way everyone gets a say. -
at TR Jnrs school, they have a uniform, but they dont have a uniform jacket/coat (for rain) but if you get one it has to be in school colours...I think it is dumb cos he has an awesome waterproof that isnt his school colour and will only be limited time he wears it to get to class to stay dry and then take it off, but I bought him a cheap one in his school colour...should I in fact have sent him in a non-school colored one to stick it to the man?
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
at TR Jnrs school, they have a uniform, but they dont have a uniform jacket/coat (for rain) but if you get one it has to be in school colours...I think it is dumb cos he has an awesome waterproof that isnt his school colour and will only be limited time he wears it to get to class to stay dry and then take it off, but I bought him a cheap one in his school colour...should I in fact have sent him in a non-school colored one to stick it to the man?
Why stop there? Send him in mufti on Monday. That'll show those authoritarian fuckers who's da boss