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@antipodean said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
Without ranking crimes, attacking kids who simply want to listen to music is incredibly shit. If it's a terrorist attack, you'd have to ask what the purpose is other than to simply terrify the populace - there's no clear end state with this sort of target.
terrorism
noun
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.That should answer your question. And given the increased regularity of this and the unwillingness of people to criticise Islam it's working.
Where Christianity is dwindling away into irrelevance under the constant criticism of anyone with half a brain, Islam is gaining traction because nobody is allowed to call it out, because racism. We allow this toxic ideology to spread without any meaningful critique, we see Mosques funded by Saudi Arabia going up all over the place, we turn a blind eye to the hateful shit that gets preached in these places, and then when someone commits an act of terror we turn around and say "gee I wonder how this person got radicalised". It's beyond stupid.
Anyone trying to defend Islam after shit like this is a disgusting human being. You would rather stand up for a toxic ideology because you're worried someone's feelings might get hurt, then stand up for the hundreds of thousands of men, woman and children being brutally raped, tortured and murdered in its name - go and read the link @jegga put up for a first hand account of someone in Mosul. That should be all the convincing you need.
We have morons ranting about nazism and white supremacy on the one hand, but then openly supporting an ideology that explicitly instructs its followers to defeat all non-believers. No amount of face-palm meme's can cover the sheer stupidity of that.
Yeah, I'm pretty pissed off.
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The religion is part of the excuse but make no mistake the perpetrators are fucking psychopaths just like the ones doing the killing in Mosul and Syria. I am sure most Muslims don’t side with these terrorists but you have to decide to either be against them or with them. They should not get a free pass from those who believe in Islam just because they are Muslim (assuming they are)
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@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
The religion is part of the excuse but make no mistake the perpetrators are fucking psychopaths just like the ones doing the killing in Mosul and Syria. I am sure most Muslims don’t side with these terrorists but you have to decide to either be against them or with them. They should not get a free pass from those who believe in Islam just because they are Muslim (assuming they are)
The religion is 100% behind these attacks. This man (I assume a man) just blew himself to pieces because he believes he will go to heaven by killing a bunch of sinners and infidels. If he doesn't believe that, he doesn't blow himself to pieces. It's quite simple. If other Muslims choose to ignore those parts of the Koran, then good for them, but that doesn't change the fact that this is inspired by Islam.
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@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
The religion is part of the excuse but make no mistake the perpetrators are fucking psychopaths just like the ones doing the killing in Mosul and Syria. I am sure most Muslims don’t side with these terrorists but you have to decide to either be against them or with them. They should not get a free pass from those who believe in Islam just because they are Muslim (assuming they are)
The religion is 100% behind these attacks. This man (I assume a man) just blew himself to pieces because he believes he will go to heaven by killing a bunch of sinners and infidels. If he doesn't believe that, he doesn't blow himself to pieces. It's quite simple. If other Muslims choose to ignore those parts of the Koran, then good for them, but that doesn't change the fact that this is inspired by Islam.
So assuming you can't easily eradicate the religion overnight, what do we do now?
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@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
The religion is part of the excuse but make no mistake the perpetrators are fucking psychopaths just like the ones doing the killing in Mosul and Syria. I am sure most Muslims don’t side with these terrorists but you have to decide to either be against them or with them. They should not get a free pass from those who believe in Islam just because they are Muslim (assuming they are)
The religion is 100% behind these attacks. This man (I assume a man) just blew himself to pieces because he believes he will go to heaven by killing a bunch of sinners and infidels. If he doesn't believe that, he doesn't blow himself to pieces. It's quite simple. If other Muslims choose to ignore those parts of the Koran, then good for them, but that doesn't change the fact that this is inspired by Islam.
So assuming you can't easily eradicate the religion overnight, what do we do now?
People blindly following their left-wing ideology need to stop shouting down any criticism of Islam with dumb terms like bigot or racist. Seriously, people shouldn't feel like they are going to lose their jobs and livelihoods purely because they criticised a bloody religion.
People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali need to be given protection so that they are able to actually speak, instead of being forced to conduct interviews at undisclosed locations and cancel their tours of NZ/Aus due to security concerns.
Any laws that relate to the protection of religion need to be scrapped.
And most importantly people in Muslim-majority countries that are calling for reform need to be supported and protected by organisations that claim to be about human rights.
Basically freedom of speech needs to become an absolute priority world-wide.
And if the States and other western countries could stop doing fucking arms deals with Saudi Arabia that would help too.
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@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
That should answer your question.I'm aware of the definition, thanks. Beyond simply spreading panic, the question remains; what end state? What change do they seek and how can it be manifested through such action? All this is looking like is a gross criminal act. So far, unless it's been reported somewhere I haven't seen, no organisation has claimed responsibility, not even ISIS who lay claim to everything.
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@canefan We openly start calling out Islam for what it is. Treat it the same way we treat christianity. It's an idea that can and should be criticised and satirised. We need to place pressure on poltical representatives to do away with laws which give legal protections to a set of ideas rather than people and we need to make public the content of these holy scripts and the belief in the islamic community that the words of mohammed are literal and are not for interpretaion. We need to call out media outlets and personalities that deliberately obfuscate stories regarding islam in order to push their own liberal agenda and we need to pressurise schools and prison systems which are tolerating or even fostering islamic extremism, into addressing these problems. That's a start anyway.
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@antipodean said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosions:
the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
That should answer your question.I'm aware of the definition, thanks. Beyond simply spreading panic, the question remains; what end state? What change do they seek and how can it be manifested through such action? All this is looking like is a gross criminal act. So far, unless it's been reported somewhere I haven't seen, no organisation has claimed responsibility, not even ISIS who lay claim to everything.
The end state is clearly laid out in the Koran - to spread Islam to the ends of the earth by any means necessary. It looks senseless as fuck, and it is, but they do have an end state no matter how utterly deluded that is.
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Here is another potential place to start at least for those in Australia, no doubt I'm not going to agree with everything they stand for but the core tenant I definitely do:
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@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rembrandt I'll agree with you that rooting out places that foster or tolerate extremism is a good start. If they trace these acts back to a mosque for example that place should be shut down
So thats twitter fucked then
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@mooshld said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rembrandt I'll agree with you that rooting out places that foster or tolerate extremism is a good start. If they trace these acts back to a mosque for example that place should be shut down
So thats twitter fucked then
I love the fact Trump is going to start calling them losers. A while some analyst was saying the best way to kill recruitment is to make ISIS appear sad and pathetic losers.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@mooshld said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rembrandt I'll agree with you that rooting out places that foster or tolerate extremism is a good start. If they trace these acts back to a mosque for example that place should be shut down
So thats twitter fucked then
I love the fact Trump is going to start calling them losers. A while some analyst was saying the best way to kill recruitment is to make ISIS appear sad and pathetic losers.
Linking these attacks to Islam, calling on Islamic leaders to do something, and mocking anyone that commits these acts. Not going to solve the problem but it's a bloody start, which is more then I can say for 8 years of Obama.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback I don't think it's a calculated move from him, but agreed that it's probably the best way to refer to them - don't give them the ego boost of calling them great monsters.
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The police knew of the bomber, it is likely he and his brother had been travelling to and from Libya in recent times. An Imam friend of the father had warned the bomber about the evils of ISIS (apparently) and noticed a troubling response which he termed "a face of hate". The neighbours could hear the bomber chanting out passages from the Koran in the weeks leading up to the bombing. He had recently grown a beard (did I just make that up? I thought I read that too). At some point it will become acceptable for the police to search peoples' premises and property purely on suspicion. At some point it needs to become unacceptable for people close to these fuckwads not to alert authorities to suspicious behaviour, all the signs were there. Those on the periphery and those who might become upset about trampling of civil rights need to realise it's not a racial persecution thing, it's not a religious persecution thing, it's a preventative action thing. If you aren't doing anything wrong you will have little to worry about, but for those 'people of interest' to police a greater watch must be kept over them
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@No-Quarter said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@mooshld said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@canefan said in Manchester Arena Explosion:
@Rembrandt I'll agree with you that rooting out places that foster or tolerate extremism is a good start. If they trace these acts back to a mosque for example that place should be shut down
So thats twitter fucked then
I love the fact Trump is going to start calling them losers. A while some analyst was saying the best way to kill recruitment is to make ISIS appear sad and pathetic losers.
Linking these attacks to Islam, calling on Islamic leaders to do something, and mocking anyone that commits these acts. Not going to solve the problem but it's a bloody start, which is more then I can say for 8 years of Obama.
Certainly more effective than stressing about the "inevitable backlash" that never seems to occur or trying to figure out what these children might have done to bring this upon themselves.
Manchester Arena Explosion