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@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/346151-alt-right-plans-free-speech-march-against-google
and you can guarantee there will be more as those are pretty click baity headlines that will be hard to resist
Thanks mate. Thats not what I read from those articles but if its what you saw, I'm sure plenty of others feel the same way.
The alt-right is a really small movement inspired by guys like Richard Spencer, who it's fair to say is a white nationalist. There has also been another movement whereby more and more people are pushing back on and ridiculing the idiocy of Identity Politics, including stupid concepts like white priviledge etc. There's not really an apt name to describe this as it is made up of people on both the left and right. Those are the types of people that want to protest against Google, and are not white supremists/nazis/mysoginists/whatever other insult gets thrown at them for not following the Marxist inspired politics.
The media sites above irresponsibly calling them "alt-right":
- immediately dismisses anything they have to say because nazis.
- gives an impression that there is a large group of white supremists in the States and the West when there isn't.
- gives them something to point at to explain Trump instead of looking inwards at the massive problems with left wing politics today.
- feeds conflict and legitimises the violence from Antifa and BLM (CNN just did what is not far off a puff piece on Antifa FFS)
This is the bullshit that caused Gollum to have a meltdown as he believed white supremists were taking over. It's not true, it's divisive as fuck and it creates massive unrest leading to violence. I have absolutely no time for any of those once reputable media outlets anymore.
When you consider the last poll on interracial couples in the States showed 95% of people having no issue with it, and add to that the fact there will be black people within the 5% opposed, that doesn't leave a lot of room for this supposedly "big" group of racists they wank on and on and on about.
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I think it is more the loudness of the alt right voice, and the next, less extreme group feeling empowered to push their ideas that concerns me.
You only have to read some of the threads on this board over the last year to see alt-right views being defended (partially or fully) by people that wouldn't necessarily be 'alt-right' themselves.
If the Nazi analogy has to be used then it probably equates to those with extreme views gaining groundswell support though a few less extreme tenets. People saying 'you know what, some of what they are saying makes sense to me, I get where they are coming from'. To go full Godwin on it, not all those Germans cheering at Nazi rallies wouldn't necessarily support genocide but they provided power to those that did. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I only know what I know and can confirm it wasn't crowd strike and the company wasn't employed by the DNC.
This has nothing to do with devices so the quote is most likely not about the evidence I know about which was more traffic and link related.As I can't say much more that is all I will add. Believe what you like.
Oh FFS. You know what you know.But have no evidence or information. Cool story....
Evidence is over rated aye....
All I have tried to do is throw a piece of information into the mix and said that I cannot provide a detailed explanation of how I know this.
I have clearly stated that anyone can choose to believe me or not, even suggested that the whole posts on the topic be deleted if no one is interested in anything without absolute proof.
There is no need to belittle my posts as a 'cool story', people are free to choose whether to believe or not.
I DO have evidence and information. I am just not going to share to that level on a public board. I am happy in knowing what I know and have not tried to argue that everyone should believe me regardless.
If this thread is to be a sharing of views and not some kind of contest then perhaps it is wise not to try and make it one. -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I think it is more the loudness of the alt right voice, and the next, less extreme group feeling empowered to push their ideas that concerns me.
You only have to read some of the threads on this board over the last year to see alt-right views being defended (partially or fully) by people that wouldn't necessarily be 'alt-right' themselves.
If the Nazi analogy has to be used then it probably equates to those with extreme views gaining groundswell support though a few less extreme tenets. People saying 'you know what, some of what they are saying makes sense to me, I get where they are coming from'. To go full Godwin on it, not all those Germans cheering at Nazi rallies wouldn't necessarily support genocide but they provided power to those that did.What alt-right views that even come close to what was on display in Charlottesville have been defended here?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I think it is more the loudness of the alt right voice, and the next, less extreme group feeling empowered to push their ideas that concerns me.
You only have to read some of the threads on this board over the last year to see alt-right views being defended (partially or fully) by people that wouldn't necessarily be 'alt-right' themselves.
If the Nazi analogy has to be used then it probably equates to those with extreme views gaining groundswell support though a few less extreme tenets. People saying 'you know what, some of what they are saying makes sense to me, I get where they are coming from'. To go full Godwin on it, not all those Germans cheering at Nazi rallies wouldn't necessarily support genocide but they provided power to those that did.What alt-right views that even come close to what was on display in Charlottesville have been defended here?
Where have I said they were? Either you have misread my post or it is poorly written and has mislead you.
My point is more about how loud voices in the extremities (both sides) can resonate with and embolden others.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
I think it is more the loudness of the alt right voice, and the next, less extreme group feeling empowered to push their ideas that concerns me.
You only have to read some of the threads on this board over the last year to see alt-right views being defended (partially or fully) by people that wouldn't necessarily be 'alt-right' themselves.
If the Nazi analogy has to be used then it probably equates to those with extreme views gaining groundswell support though a few less extreme tenets. People saying 'you know what, some of what they are saying makes sense to me, I get where they are coming from'. To go full Godwin on it, not all those Germans cheering at Nazi rallies wouldn't necessarily support genocide but they provided power to those that did.Not true. Nobody on here has defended the core beliefs of the alt-right.
What you're talking about is the fact that those on the alt-right agree with the sharp criticism of left wing narratives, particularly when it comes to "white priviledge".
That does not, in any way, make the person laying that criticism a "less extreme" version of a Nazi.
For example, Ben Shapiro absolutely tears the idea of white priviledge apart. The alt-right would love that argument, but at the same time he has received over 8000 anti-semitic tweets and messages from alt-right people. So is Shapiro a "less extreme" version of a Nazi?
And this is where a lot of confusion has arisen. People (including myself) didn't really have a clear idea of exactly what the alt-right was, as the term gets thrown around all over the place. Milo helped muddy the waters by trying to claim the term, but in reality he's a gay Jewish man that loves sleeping with black guys, so is despised by people of Richard Spencer's ilk.
I hope these posts help clarify the current situation a bit - it's taken me a while to get my head around TBH.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I think it is more the loudness of the alt right voice, and the next, less extreme group feeling empowered to push their ideas that concerns me.
You only have to read some of the threads on this board over the last year to see alt-right views being defended (partially or fully) by people that wouldn't necessarily be 'alt-right' themselves.
If the Nazi analogy has to be used then it probably equates to those with extreme views gaining groundswell support though a few less extreme tenets. People saying 'you know what, some of what they are saying makes sense to me, I get where they are coming from'. To go full Godwin on it, not all those Germans cheering at Nazi rallies wouldn't necessarily support genocide but they provided power to those that did.What alt-right views that even come close to what was on display in Charlottesville have been defended here?
Where have I said they were? Either you have misread my post or it is poorly written and has mislead you.
My point is more about how loud voices in the extremities (both sides) can resonate with and embolden others.
"You only have to read some of the threads on this board over the last year to see alt-right views being defended (partially or fully) by people that wouldn't necessarily be 'alt-right' themselves."
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I only know what I know and can confirm it wasn't crowd strike and the company wasn't employed by the DNC.
This has nothing to do with devices so the quote is most likely not about the evidence I know about which was more traffic and link related.As I can't say much more that is all I will add. Believe what you like.
Oh FFS. You know what you know.But have no evidence or information. Cool story....
Evidence is over rated aye....
All I have tried to do is throw a piece of information into the mix and said that I cannot provide a detailed explanation of how I know this.
I have clearly stated that anyone can choose to believe me or not, even suggested that the whole posts on the topic be deleted if no one is interested in anything without absolute proof.
There is no need to belittle my posts as a 'cool story', people are free to choose whether to believe or not.
I DO have evidence and information. I am just not going to share to that level on a public board. I am happy in knowing what I know and have not tried to argue that everyone should believe me regardless.
If this thread is to be a sharing of views and not some kind of contest then perhaps it is wise not to try and make it one.You haven't thrown information in. You have spouted unsubstantiated bullshit.
You even claimed that the DNC didn't hire the firm. You dont know what you are talking about. That is just blatantly obvious. All your imaginary but top secret information is just amusing. -
The alt right is just a political pejorative term.
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/346151-alt-right-plans-free-speech-march-against-google
and you can guarantee there will be more as those are pretty click baity headlines that will be hard to resist
Thanks mate. Thats not what I read from those articles but if its what you saw, I'm sure plenty of others feel the same way.
The alt-right is a really small movement inspired by guys like Richard Spencer, who it's fair to say is a white nationalist. There has also been another movement whereby more and more people are pushing back on and ridiculing the idiocy of Identity Politics, including stupid concepts like white priviledge etc. There's not really an apt name to describe this as it is made up of people on both the left and right. Those are the types of people that want to protest against Google, and are not white supremists/nazis/mysoginists/whatever other insult gets thrown at them for not following the Marxist inspired politics.
The media sites above irresponsibly calling them "alt-right":
- immediately dismisses anything they have to say because nazis.
- gives an impression that there is a large group of white supremists in the States and the West when there isn't.
- gives them something to point at to explain Trump instead of looking inwards at the massive problems with left wing politics today.
- feeds conflict and legitimises the violence from Antifa and BLM (CNN just did what is not far off a puff piece on Antifa FFS)
This is the bullshit that caused Gollum to have a meltdown as he believed white supremists were taking over. It's not true, it's divisive as fuck and it creates massive unrest leading to violence. I have absolutely no time for any of those once reputable media outlets anymore.
When you consider the last poll on interracial couples in the States showed 95% of people having no issue with it, and add to that the fact there will be black people within the 5% opposed, that doesn't leave a lot of room for this supposedly "big" group of racists they wank on and on and on about.
Isnt Richard Spencer considered the leader of the Alt Right? And didnt he just attend a "Unite the Right" Far Right Rally where a who's-who of white supremacists got together, some donning kevlar and assault rifles, others in nazi memorabilia, some chanting Anti Semitic rhetoric, carrying torches etc?
Im not sure that ones views on interracial marriage is an accurate gauge of ones tendency to racism. As an example, we couldnt draw the same conclusion on sexism based on the number of people who think heterosexual marriage should be criminalized. Anecdotally, I know plenty of black and white racists who are married to someone from the other team. They're not white supremacists - they're the old fashioned type racist, like my grandma in law who I love dearly and who is wholly inappropriate in a mostly hilarious and "the past is a different country" kinda way.
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@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/346151-alt-right-plans-free-speech-march-against-google
and you can guarantee there will be more as those are pretty click baity headlines that will be hard to resist
Thanks mate. Thats not what I read from those articles but if its what you saw, I'm sure plenty of others feel the same way.
The alt-right is a really small movement inspired by guys like Richard Spencer, who it's fair to say is a white nationalist. There has also been another movement whereby more and more people are pushing back on and ridiculing the idiocy of Identity Politics, including stupid concepts like white priviledge etc. There's not really an apt name to describe this as it is made up of people on both the left and right. Those are the types of people that want to protest against Google, and are not white supremists/nazis/mysoginists/whatever other insult gets thrown at them for not following the Marxist inspired politics.
The media sites above irresponsibly calling them "alt-right":
- immediately dismisses anything they have to say because nazis.
- gives an impression that there is a large group of white supremists in the States and the West when there isn't.
- gives them something to point at to explain Trump instead of looking inwards at the massive problems with left wing politics today.
- feeds conflict and legitimises the violence from Antifa and BLM (CNN just did what is not far off a puff piece on Antifa FFS)
This is the bullshit that caused Gollum to have a meltdown as he believed white supremists were taking over. It's not true, it's divisive as fuck and it creates massive unrest leading to violence. I have absolutely no time for any of those once reputable media outlets anymore.
When you consider the last poll on interracial couples in the States showed 95% of people having no issue with it, and add to that the fact there will be black people within the 5% opposed, that doesn't leave a lot of room for this supposedly "big" group of racists they wank on and on and on about.
Isnt Richard Spencer considered the leader of the Alt Right? And didnt he just attend a "Unite the Right" Far Right Rally where a who's-who of white supremacists got together, some donning kevlar and assault rifles, others in nazi memorabilia, some chanting Anti Semitic rhetoric, carrying torches etc?
Yes, that is my point. Lumping people protesting against Google with those scumbags is both dishonest and irresponsible and gives what is a minority of people validity. As @Baron-Silas-Greenback says, the left use "alt-right" as a pejorative term to slander anyone that disagrees with them. Not sure you completely understood my post?
Im not sure that ones views on interracial marriage is an accurate gauge of ones tendency to racism. As an example, we couldnt draw the same conclusion on sexism based on the number of people who think heterosexual marriage should be criminalized. Anecdotally, I know plenty of black and white racists who are married to someone from the other team. They're not white supremacists - they're the old fashioned type racist, like my grandma in law who I love dearly and who is wholly inappropriate in a mostly hilarious and "the past is a different country" kinda way.
The sexism argument is really a false equivalence. I think those stats do indicate that racism is dying in the States. I've quoted this before but I think it is appropriate:
“Racism is not dead, but it is on life support – kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as ‘racists’”
— Thomas Sowell -
“Racism is not dead, but it is on life support – kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as ‘racists’”
— Thomas SowellThat's brilliant
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
The alt right is just a political pejorative term.
your point being?
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/346151-alt-right-plans-free-speech-march-against-google
and you can guarantee there will be more as those are pretty click baity headlines that will be hard to resist
Thanks mate. Thats not what I read from those articles but if its what you saw, I'm sure plenty of others feel the same way.
The alt-right is a really small movement inspired by guys like Richard Spencer, who it's fair to say is a white nationalist. There has also been another movement whereby more and more people are pushing back on and ridiculing the idiocy of Identity Politics, including stupid concepts like white priviledge etc. There's not really an apt name to describe this as it is made up of people on both the left and right. Those are the types of people that want to protest against Google, and are not white supremists/nazis/mysoginists/whatever other insult gets thrown at them for not following the Marxist inspired politics.
The media sites above irresponsibly calling them "alt-right":
- immediately dismisses anything they have to say because nazis.
- gives an impression that there is a large group of white supremists in the States and the West when there isn't.
- gives them something to point at to explain Trump instead of looking inwards at the massive problems with left wing politics today.
- feeds conflict and legitimises the violence from Antifa and BLM (CNN just did what is not far off a puff piece on Antifa FFS)
This is the bullshit that caused Gollum to have a meltdown as he believed white supremists were taking over. It's not true, it's divisive as fuck and it creates massive unrest leading to violence. I have absolutely no time for any of those once reputable media outlets anymore.
When you consider the last poll on interracial couples in the States showed 95% of people having no issue with it, and add to that the fact there will be black people within the 5% opposed, that doesn't leave a lot of room for this supposedly "big" group of racists they wank on and on and on about.
Isnt Richard Spencer considered the leader of the Alt Right? And didnt he just attend a "Unite the Right" Far Right Rally where a who's-who of white supremacists got together, some donning kevlar and assault rifles, others in nazi memorabilia, some chanting Anti Semitic rhetoric, carrying torches etc?
Yes, that is my point. Lumping people protesting against Google with those scumbags is both dishonest and irresponsible and gives what is a minority of people validity. As @Baron-Silas-Greenback says, the left use "alt-right" as a pejorative term to slander anyone that disagrees with them. Not sure you completely understood my post?
Im not sure that ones views on interracial marriage is an accurate gauge of ones tendency to racism. As an example, we couldnt draw the same conclusion on sexism based on the number of people who think heterosexual marriage should be criminalized. Anecdotally, I know plenty of black and white racists who are married to someone from the other team. They're not white supremacists - they're the old fashioned type racist, like my grandma in law who I love dearly and who is wholly inappropriate in a mostly hilarious and "the past is a different country" kinda way.
The sexism argument is really a false equivalence. I think those stats do indicate that racism is dying in the States. I've quoted this before but I think it is appropriate:
“Racism is not dead, but it is on life support – kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as ‘racists’”
— Thomas SowellCorrect, I don't completely understand your point (yet) hence my questions... Im getting there...
So is Richard Spencer the leader of the Alt Right ?
Were the google protests Alt Right? I read Posobiec just cancelled the protests & I've read that he's a prominent figure of the Alt Right - is that correct?
Id be interested in hearing your reasoning behind your false equivalency position on Sexism and Racism. -
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@phoenetia They've put the blanket title of 'alt-right' or 'far right' onto anyone who doesn't follow leftist ideology. From Charlottesville Alt-right is now murderous nazism. This really scares me.
I dont see people calling Conservatives the alt-right however I feel that Conservatives aren't quite as vocal with their condemnation of the Alt Right as they should be and thats been my view on this forum too. Ive seen Alt Right points/memes parroted here before (not the racist variety) however I struggle to recall any Right leaning folk here ever calling out the Alt Right on their more offensive positions (thats not to say its never happened, I've just not seen it when I've been browsing here). Because of that, I tend towards thinking that most RW folk are ok with the Alt Right because I see more agreement rather than condemnation for them.
I can see where your concerns stem from and how you may feel a target because of others whose beliefs you dont share.
It sounds similar to the fear of many on the left who feel that Charlottesville is evidence of emboldened White Supremacists rising up and that the presidents failure to call it out adequately will result in it growing in popularity.
The next conflict between the Far Left and the Far Right will be very violent. There are thugs in the ANTIFA who seem to be spoiling for a fight; Charlottesville was a clear display of presence and firepower from the White Supremacists and no doubt ANTIFA will want to knock them down a number of pegs. What follows is going to be ugly and bloody. -
@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@phoenetia They've put the blanket title of 'alt-right' or 'far right' onto anyone who doesn't follow leftist ideology. From Charlottesville Alt-right is now murderous nazism. This really scares me.
I dont see people calling Conservatives the alt-right however I feel that Conservatives aren't quite as vocal with their condemnation of the Alt Right as they should be and thats been my view on this forum too. Ive seen Alt Right points/memes parroted here before (not the racist variety) however I struggle to recall any Right leaning folk here ever calling out the Alt Right on their more offensive positions (thats not to say its never happened, I've just not seen it when I've been browsing here). Because of that, I tend towards thinking that most RW folk are ok with the Alt Right because I see more agreement rather than condemnation for them.
I can see where your concerns stem from and how you may feel a target because of others whose beliefs you dont share.
It sounds similar to the fear of many on the left who feel that Charlottesville is evidence of emboldened White Supremacists rising up and that the presidents failure to call it out adequately will result in it growing in popularity.
The next conflict between the Far Left and the Far Right will be very violent. There are thugs in the ANTIFA who seem to be spoiling for a fight; Charlottesville was a clear display of presence and firepower from the White Supremacists and no doubt ANTIFA will want to knock them down a number of pegs. What follows is going to be ugly and bloody.I think ANTIFA will be even more emboldened. The media and politicians have basically said they can do whatever they want because. .. Nazis .
It is bloody retarded to think peace and unity will be achieved by only blaming one side.
As for us defending the alt right. I don't even know who that is supposed to be. Seems to be whoever disagrees with the left. As for "offensive positions" ...offensive according to who? Are you going to start calling out over the positions the neo Marxists have ' that others might find "offensive"? -
As for the effect in Trump. It seems like this should really hurt him. But will it? Seems like all the usuall people who don't like him were the ones attacking him. Just more noise from the usual groups and people. Reminds me alot of the election. Remember the Access Hollywood tapes? I think the argument that both sides are violent is a much easier defense.
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The is no group called the 'alt-right', it is a term coined by Spencer
Those that want a white ethno-state are alt-right. If you want a broader definition then you can throw in the 'racial realists'.
There is another group of people who aren't alt-right but are a reaction to the progressive movement. At times some in this group have attempted to define themselves as 'new right', the label has not stuck.. because its shit
The alt right has called them 'alt light'
The alt right has been attacking this group is quite horrible ways. Threatening family members, attacking various people for race mixing etc etc. The attacks from the alt right to this group are similar in intensity and nastiness to their attacks on progressives.
Michael Malice has a book coming out shorty that discusses alt right/alt light/new right. He makes a good point that the only thing the have in common is their opposition to progressives.
Ignoring the alt right for a second, the so called alt light don't really have a shared belief.. in fact I would place many of them as left of centre. The only thing that defines them is the opposition to progressivism (which is worth noting is a subset of the left, not all leftists are progressives)Now this is where the category error comes into it..
Some progressives seem to be conflating the alt right with the new right/alt light. All of these people oppose progressives, so therefore they are all alt right
Thats like the classic logic mistake - all cats are mammals, all dogs are mammals, therefore all cats are dogs
It is genuinely retarded
Are the progressives who do this that retarded? Well I am constantly surprised by peoples stupidity, so perhaps it is just a case of being spectacularly stupid.
However I think the misuse of the term alt right is probably deliberate. It's a useful tool to say everyone who disagrees with me is evil. If they are evil then you don't need to engage in conversation with them..
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@phoenetia said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@phoenetia They've put the blanket title of 'alt-right' or 'far right' onto anyone who doesn't follow leftist ideology. From Charlottesville Alt-right is now murderous nazism. This really scares me.
I dont see people calling Conservatives the alt-right however I feel that Conservatives aren't quite as vocal with their condemnation of the Alt Right as they should be and thats been my view on this forum too. Ive seen Alt Right points/memes parroted here before (not the racist variety) however I struggle to recall any Right leaning folk here ever calling out the Alt Right on their more offensive positions (thats not to say its never happened, I've just not seen it when I've been browsing here). Because of that, I tend towards thinking that most RW folk are ok with the Alt Right because I see more agreement rather than condemnation for them.
I can see where your concerns stem from and how you may feel a target because of others whose beliefs you dont share.
It sounds similar to the fear of many on the left who feel that Charlottesville is evidence of emboldened White Supremacists rising up and that the presidents failure to call it out adequately will result in it growing in popularity.
The next conflict between the Far Left and the Far Right will be very violent. There are thugs in the ANTIFA who seem to be spoiling for a fight; Charlottesville was a clear display of presence and firepower from the White Supremacists and no doubt ANTIFA will want to knock them down a number of pegs. What follows is going to be ugly and bloody.What is the Alt-right and what non-racist Alt-right views have you seen parroted here? This seems to be absurd as labelling someone a communist because they believe in workers rights. But communists believe that too right?
It sounds similar to the fear of many on the left who feel that Charlottesville is evidence of emboldened White Supremacists rising up and that the presidents failure to call it out adequately will result in it growing in popularity.italicised text
This is just ridiculous. There were what, a couple of hundred people at that rally. And this is enough to trigger fear of an emboldened White Supremacist movement? There are probably more people in the US speaking Klingon. Get a grip.
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
“Racism is not dead, but it is on life support – kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as ‘racists’”
— Thomas SowellOff on a tangent..
Sowell was brilliant. He had that skill of being able to present complex arguments logically and with regular language.
This Firing Line episode from 1981 is interesting. The cultural arguments are so similar to today.. so little has changed (probably related to that quote above)
About 40mins in there is aombudsmanombudslady who manages to annoy him a little. It's like she wasn't even listening and just went through her pre prepared objections
US Politics