South americas meltdown
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@dogmeat said in South americas meltdown:
@baron-silas-greenback said in South americas meltdown:
@rocky-rockbottom said in South americas meltdown:
@baron-silas-greenback said in South americas meltdown:
Capatalism on the other hand has lifted billions out of poverty
WRONG. Capitalism is inherently criminogenic. The best route to getting ahead in a capitalistic society is by fucking your fellow man. Ask any billionaire.
Name a system that has led to better outcomes for as many people . The fact you cannot should tell you something. How has the existence of billionaires negatively effected you?
Benevolent despotism has had limited success. The trick is to find someone genuinely benevolent and then hope they remain so
I am available if asked nicely
Lee Kwan Yew would be the ultimate example of that. But he is the exception rather than the rule
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@gt12 sorry for the delayed reply, been hectic lately. Very reasonable post (as always) and agree with what you are saying.
My point about the individual being paramount was in the context of law and the government. I am also a big fan of a strong family unit and a strong sense of community - in fact with those in place you need even less government intervention. I think both of those have deteriorated in many western countries which is not good.
From what I understand in Japan people were/are expected to seek help from family first and foremost when they fell on hard times, and that helped ensure very low levels of unemployment and poverty. But since the financial crisis and increased welfare as a result a new generation of welfare dependant people have emerged - as you live there would be interested to hear your take on that?
I'm all for the government putting in place a safety net for those less fortunate, but I do not want welfare programs aimed at just redistrubuting wealth as that is not only straight up theft, it gives those in government way too much power. It also reduces incentives to actually work hard and contribute to society.
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@no-quarter said in South americas meltdown:
I'm all for the government putting in place a safety net for those less fortunate, but I do not want welfare programs aimed at just redistrubuting wealth as that is not only straight up theft, it gives those in government way too much power. It also reduces incentives to actually work hard and contribute to society.
As we're seeing with places like Australia. Generational welfare is now a thing. As the class divide widens, and the politicians seek to leverage that, the possibility for turning that around is narrowing. Being on the dole used to have a stigma attached to it, but now its a lifestyle.
At the same time though, its not like people are starving on the streets. And it is paradise compared to America where illness = bankruptcy for a lot of people. Not that you'd know how good we've got it based on the media rhetoric.
Gig economy's effect on social welfare capitalism is going to be very interesting as it expands.
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@canefan said in South americas meltdown:
@dogmeat said in South americas meltdown:
@baron-silas-greenback said in South americas meltdown:
@rocky-rockbottom said in South americas meltdown:
@baron-silas-greenback said in South americas meltdown:
Capatalism on the other hand has lifted billions out of poverty
WRONG. Capitalism is inherently criminogenic. The best route to getting ahead in a capitalistic society is by fucking your fellow man. Ask any billionaire.
Name a system that has led to better outcomes for as many people . The fact you cannot should tell you something. How has the existence of billionaires negatively effected you?
Benevolent despotism has had limited success. The trick is to find someone genuinely benevolent and then hope they remain so
I am available if asked nicely
Lee Kwan Yew would be the ultimate example of that. But he is the exception rather than the rule
Ahh yes, Bright North Korea.
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@nta I was discussing the generational welfare with a client on Monday, as my old neighbours were starting a legacy...
Mother and father on the benefit, teenagers (both sexes) not working, popping out sprogs (or g/f pregnant) living at home with parents not working...
Grow up seeing your parents never working, must be quite easy to slide on into that same life.
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@taniwharugby you can KNOW there is something better/different out there, but why work for it?
When I was leaving high school (93), one of the local bogans (family been in the area generations) said he was going to work for forestry straight out of high school and earn $25k a year while I was wasting my money getting a degree.
Yep hope that's going well...
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@taniwharugby said in South americas meltdown:
@nta I was discussing the generational welfare with a client on Monday, as my old neighbours were starting a legacy...
Mother and father on the benefit, teenagers (both sexes) not working, popping out sprogs (or g/f pregnant) living at home with parents not working...
Grow up seeing your parents never working, must be quite easy to slide on into that same life.
Intergenerational ferality is hard to combat , my mate employs a few Ferals and they get stuck with being β the responsible β one in the family and tapped for loans etc which makes them wonder if itβs worth the effort.
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@bones said in South americas meltdown:
@jegga he's doomed. I left school and pumped gas. I mean...petroleum transfer technician.
Oh well .
The careers people shouted my boy fish and chips for lunch and a brand new pair of work boots when he told them . Things have obviously changed a lot since I was at school .
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@taniwharugby you went on the dole even earlier than I did then.
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@bones yep...I thought I may as well get some of that welfare money now and I'd pay it back later in life...
As to the golf, I worked out pretty quickly I couldnt stand being out on the driving range for hours on end practicing, I much preferred actually playing golf, so worked in the pro-shop to top up my dole until I decided to get a fulltime job...
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@taniwharugby should have gone to university eh.
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@bones said in South americas meltdown:
@nta yeah going straight from school to work is a shit idea eh...
I never said that. But it didn't stop you getting the shits about the possibility of an implication, eh?
My point was that he couldn't understand that there was more than one way to skin that particular cat. His Dad was forestry, so that was good enough for him. Didn't consider further education - he wasn't much of a student - but the thought of anything else e.g. A trade, simply didn't enter his head.
It's like that for kids in certain socio economic brackets: while the option to try something different is there, rarely does it happen because they're simply not aware of how to get there, or supported by the people around them.
Last I heard he was working the mines so he obviously did alright out of it all.
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@nta said in South americas meltdown:
@bones said in South americas meltdown:
@nta yeah going straight from school to work is a shit idea eh...
Last I heard he was working the mines so he obviously did alright out of it all.
A mate of mine who managed a major subcontractor for BMA told me this story which sums a lot of them up:
Due to uneven shifts, they got paid weekly but one was a long week and the other a short week. This was a constant source of tension with workers wanting their pay averaged over a fortnight. One particular miner who would have earned well north of a million dollars over the previous decade as an effectively unskilled worker rang to say he couldn't get to work following a short week because he didn't have enough cash to fill the car with petrol.