-
@Siam said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan agree but not totally. Before about 5-10 years ago the public were way more discerning. We all grew up with truth ( not sensationalism) as a cornerstone to society. Fake news was given no oxygen to live. The Truth newspaper was a fun rag, and universally condemned as a creditable source. The distrust of previously strong institutions ( media, justice, politics) is a real thing that needs to be addressed
Just recognising it is a start
Time to push back and actually not encourage these messages which only serve to corrupt our mindsets.
There's a great Sam Harris podcast this week talking about it if interested.
We didn't have so many alternate information sources as we do now either. Some legitimate, others more marginal. Either way, MSM are under more pressure than ever to maintain their business and journalist standards seem to have slipped. But I think the news has always been delivered on an angle, it's just easier to see now
-
I feel the same way about shitlebrities and politicians using the massacre for their own publicity seeking or race baiting .
-
@jegga said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
I feel the same way about shitlebrities and politicians using the massacre for their own publicity seeking or race baiting .
Seemingly completely different characters but yet those Elders are just as fucken annoying as eachother. I wonder how many thoughts and prayers Millie has sent ?
-
Another thing I wish Adern would have done from the outset is to have referred to the victims as kiwis and completely left religious identity out of it. We all know the intersectionality. First and foremost these people we feel deep sympathy for are New Zealanders. All other sub group labels (religion, age, sex, left or right handed etc) are less relevant and are only convenient for identitarians to selfishly virtue signal.
She should have brushed away the obvious and united all of us under a kiwi backdrop. Fellow kiwis suffered on that day and that's what's most important.
But no, she goes all dress up and points to the elephant in the room by dividing us on the basis of religion, thereby opening the door to shit pieces like the one jegga posted.
Keep the narrative that kiwis were killed and it's kiwis that need our help in terrible times, (which ordinary kiwis did magnificently). You don't deny the religion, but it plays a backseat role when addressing the nation and the world.
-
Oh good then...is it just be or this this verging on a puff piece for NZ gangs.
There was an article a few days back showing a 'emotional haka' by one of these groups at a mosque. One person put a pretty damning heartfelt comment stating that a couple of the men being praised were up on rape and home invasion charges. Kinda infuriating but I guess thats the point for clicks
-
@dogmeat no mate, simply because everyone with a functioning brain has noticed the religious hatred and bigotry motivated murders that have permeated life since 2001.
At the outset the focus should have been the care and support for victims and families and those immediately affected. The narrative could have been focussed on kiwis rather than a sub group when we were trying to digest what happened.
Time to address the other issues later, for now (then) it was rallying around new zealanders.
That would have been a unifying and more mature message in my opinion
-
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
The gunman ( and I still don't know his name without googling ) ...
I’ve been wondering the past two weeks whether this is by design. I suspect it is, mostly because of the idea that we don’t want to give the sickfuck psychopath “infamy and notoriety” or something. Maybe there are other explanations.
But burying his name seems to me irresponsible and inadequate. It’s a way of absolving him of some of the blame and spreading it far-and-wide onto “toxic white masculinity and privilege,” especially, which let’s face it means a lot of us here. Like, we did it. That’s why we keep seeing fingers pointed at ourselves with far too many confessional white-guilt op-eds telling us “we’re to blame,” etc. Am I being defensive? Maybe I am. But that’s what happens when people start fingerpointing and throwing around blame. And I suspect this is exactly the sort of highly emotional and divisive effect that the dickwad terrorist was banking on.
No, we and society are not to blame. Sure, there are a lot of factors you can pull outta your bunghole if you want to absolve the sicko. But he’s the shitforbrains who planned and executed this appalling crime. His name is Brenton Harrison Tarrant, and he ALONE is responsible for it. Certainly we can all do better as a culture and society making sure everybody feels included. But we are ALL individuals responsible for our own actions, and fingers don’t need to be pointed anywhere other than the sickfuck who planned the assault and pulled the triggers.
-
@dogmeat said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Siam so you wouldn't mention the racial and religious bigotry / hatred that led to the mass murders?
Well apparently according to the censor.. we arent allowed to know what led to this mass murder.. our fragile brains cannot be allowed to see it. We must just be told by the govt why he did it...
-
@Salacious-Crumb said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
The gunman ( and I still don't know his name without googling ) ...
I’ve been wondering the past two weeks whether this is by design. I suspect it is, mostly because of the idea that we don’t want to give the sickfuck psychopath “infamy and notoriety” or something. Maybe there are other explanations.
But burying his name seems to me irresponsible and inadequate. It’s a way of absolving him of some of the blame and spreading it far-and-wide onto “toxic white masculinity and privilege,” especially, which let’s face it means a lot of us here. Like, we did it. That’s why we keep seeing fingers pointed at ourselves with far too many confessional white-guilt op-eds telling us “we’re to blame,” etc. Am I being defensive? Maybe I am. But that’s what happens when people start fingerpointing and throwing around blame. And I suspect this is exactly the sort of highly emotional and divisive effect that the dickwad terrorist was banking on.
No, we and society are not to blame. Sure, there are a lot of factors you can pull outta your bunghole if you want to absolve the sicko of his crime. But he’s the shitforbrains who planned and executed this appalling crime. His name is Brenton Harrison Tarrant, and he ALONE is responsible for the crime. Certainly we can all do better as a culture and society making sure everybody feels included. But we are ALL individuals responsible for our own actions, and fingers don’t need to be pointed anywhere other than the sickfuck who planned the assault and pulled the triggers.
Outstanding post !
To put it more simply for any feminists who might be reading. I didn't kill Grace Millane and I didn't kill all those people in the mosque either.
Can't say for sure but I have a feeling none of my fellow ferners did either.
-
Media finally covering this. Good to see.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218679
-
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218989
Things are getting more ridiculous by the day
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
-
Agree .....It was basically a sign of unity and respect to those executed in cold blood.....Everyone was talking compassion and empathy and that was a way to show it.
I agree with baron too, but think that’s a separate issue and doesn’t form part of the mosque shooting narrative.
-
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
-
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
-
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
-
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
-
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque