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@dogmeat no mate, simply because everyone with a functioning brain has noticed the religious hatred and bigotry motivated murders that have permeated life since 2001.
At the outset the focus should have been the care and support for victims and families and those immediately affected. The narrative could have been focussed on kiwis rather than a sub group when we were trying to digest what happened.
Time to address the other issues later, for now (then) it was rallying around new zealanders.
That would have been a unifying and more mature message in my opinion
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
The gunman ( and I still don't know his name without googling ) ...
I’ve been wondering the past two weeks whether this is by design. I suspect it is, mostly because of the idea that we don’t want to give the sickfuck psychopath “infamy and notoriety” or something. Maybe there are other explanations.
But burying his name seems to me irresponsible and inadequate. It’s a way of absolving him of some of the blame and spreading it far-and-wide onto “toxic white masculinity and privilege,” especially, which let’s face it means a lot of us here. Like, we did it. That’s why we keep seeing fingers pointed at ourselves with far too many confessional white-guilt op-eds telling us “we’re to blame,” etc. Am I being defensive? Maybe I am. But that’s what happens when people start fingerpointing and throwing around blame. And I suspect this is exactly the sort of highly emotional and divisive effect that the dickwad terrorist was banking on.
No, we and society are not to blame. Sure, there are a lot of factors you can pull outta your bunghole if you want to absolve the sicko. But he’s the shitforbrains who planned and executed this appalling crime. His name is Brenton Harrison Tarrant, and he ALONE is responsible for it. Certainly we can all do better as a culture and society making sure everybody feels included. But we are ALL individuals responsible for our own actions, and fingers don’t need to be pointed anywhere other than the sickfuck who planned the assault and pulled the triggers.
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@dogmeat said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Siam so you wouldn't mention the racial and religious bigotry / hatred that led to the mass murders?
Well apparently according to the censor.. we arent allowed to know what led to this mass murder.. our fragile brains cannot be allowed to see it. We must just be told by the govt why he did it...
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
The gunman ( and I still don't know his name without googling ) ...
I’ve been wondering the past two weeks whether this is by design. I suspect it is, mostly because of the idea that we don’t want to give the sickfuck psychopath “infamy and notoriety” or something. Maybe there are other explanations.
But burying his name seems to me irresponsible and inadequate. It’s a way of absolving him of some of the blame and spreading it far-and-wide onto “toxic white masculinity and privilege,” especially, which let’s face it means a lot of us here. Like, we did it. That’s why we keep seeing fingers pointed at ourselves with far too many confessional white-guilt op-eds telling us “we’re to blame,” etc. Am I being defensive? Maybe I am. But that’s what happens when people start fingerpointing and throwing around blame. And I suspect this is exactly the sort of highly emotional and divisive effect that the dickwad terrorist was banking on.
No, we and society are not to blame. Sure, there are a lot of factors you can pull outta your bunghole if you want to absolve the sicko of his crime. But he’s the shitforbrains who planned and executed this appalling crime. His name is Brenton Harrison Tarrant, and he ALONE is responsible for the crime. Certainly we can all do better as a culture and society making sure everybody feels included. But we are ALL individuals responsible for our own actions, and fingers don’t need to be pointed anywhere other than the sickfuck who planned the assault and pulled the triggers.
Outstanding post !
To put it more simply for any feminists who might be reading. I didn't kill Grace Millane and I didn't kill all those people in the mosque either.
Can't say for sure but I have a feeling none of my fellow ferners did either.
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Media finally covering this. Good to see.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218679
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218989
Things are getting more ridiculous by the day
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
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Agree .....It was basically a sign of unity and respect to those executed in cold blood.....Everyone was talking compassion and empathy and that was a way to show it.
I agree with baron too, but think that’s a separate issue and doesn’t form part of the mosque shooting narrative.
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
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@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
I agree with you, dont think it is justified, but if The First Baby and Jacinda-mania has taught us anything.. it is that most NZ voters are fucking morons.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
Yep she has, even some of my real hard out right wing FB mates made mention of this which to me says it all. She's been awesome.
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@Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
Fair enough, happy to stand corrected in this instance.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
I agree with you, dont think it is justified, but if The First Baby and Jacinda-mania has taught us anything.. it is that most NZ voters are fucking morons.
Personally, rarely do I see anything a politician does to give them a good look (or bad look for that matter) is justified.
Every move they make either flips up Black Jack or is bust. Jacinda got Black Jack with this episode.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque