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@Salacious-Crumb said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
The gunman ( and I still don't know his name without googling ) ...
I’ve been wondering the past two weeks whether this is by design. I suspect it is, mostly because of the idea that we don’t want to give the sickfuck psychopath “infamy and notoriety” or something. Maybe there are other explanations.
But burying his name seems to me irresponsible and inadequate. It’s a way of absolving him of some of the blame and spreading it far-and-wide onto “toxic white masculinity and privilege,” especially, which let’s face it means a lot of us here. Like, we did it. That’s why we keep seeing fingers pointed at ourselves with far too many confessional white-guilt op-eds telling us “we’re to blame,” etc. Am I being defensive? Maybe I am. But that’s what happens when people start fingerpointing and throwing around blame. And I suspect this is exactly the sort of highly emotional and divisive effect that the dickwad terrorist was banking on.
No, we and society are not to blame. Sure, there are a lot of factors you can pull outta your bunghole if you want to absolve the sicko of his crime. But he’s the shitforbrains who planned and executed this appalling crime. His name is Brenton Harrison Tarrant, and he ALONE is responsible for the crime. Certainly we can all do better as a culture and society making sure everybody feels included. But we are ALL individuals responsible for our own actions, and fingers don’t need to be pointed anywhere other than the sickfuck who planned the assault and pulled the triggers.
Outstanding post !
To put it more simply for any feminists who might be reading. I didn't kill Grace Millane and I didn't kill all those people in the mosque either.
Can't say for sure but I have a feeling none of my fellow ferners did either.
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Media finally covering this. Good to see.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218679
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12218989
Things are getting more ridiculous by the day
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
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Agree .....It was basically a sign of unity and respect to those executed in cold blood.....Everyone was talking compassion and empathy and that was a way to show it.
I agree with baron too, but think that’s a separate issue and doesn’t form part of the mosque shooting narrative.
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
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@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
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@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
I agree with you, dont think it is justified, but if The First Baby and Jacinda-mania has taught us anything.. it is that most NZ voters are fucking morons.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
Yep she has, even some of my real hard out right wing FB mates made mention of this which to me says it all. She's been awesome.
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@Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I don't think so, if she showed her empathy with her speeches and actions by visiting the victims and the Mosques without the hijab, I doubt anybody would have mentioned her not wearing it.
Wearing it is a small sign of approval of the subjegation of women by that religion.
Fair enough, happy to stand corrected in this instance.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@MN5 said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
It's not a symbol of the Muslim faith. It's not even mentioned anywhere in the Koran or Haddith. It's just a tool males have used to oppress women, and those Muslim feminists that were deeply offended by the "gesture" had every right to be. Our PM that calls herself a feminist as well should have known better.
Poor old Jacinda was fucked either way though, if she didn't wear it any number of critics would have had a go at her for that too.
I think Jacinda has come out of this glowingly in terms of overall public perception of her. I would be interested in her polling before and after the attacks?
I agree with you, dont think it is justified, but if The First Baby and Jacinda-mania has taught us anything.. it is that most NZ voters are fucking morons.
Personally, rarely do I see anything a politician does to give them a good look (or bad look for that matter) is justified.
Every move they make either flips up Black Jack or is bust. Jacinda got Black Jack with this episode.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
I don't really classify the selective Twitter posts as evidence to back up either, which is all I've seen from you
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@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Oh it is only the beginning.. it was only a few weeks ago.. you were saying that NZ women wearing Hijabs was a sign of respect...
And I stand by that. Heather Du Plessis Allen wrote an article I felt was in line with my position. Wearing the hijab immediately after the massacre was a sign of respect for the dead and I think was reasonable. Prolonged wear I'm not okay with, but getting into a discussion about the hijab as a sign of women's oppression within days of the event was IMHO not the right time. Of course we are bound to disagree on that one, but if you view the garment as a symbol of the muslim faith oppressing women then I'm in agreement with that
Rubbish, I was not talking about it long term, I think it was disrespectful at the time. Many Muslim women find the Hajib oppressive, it is NOT some universally accepted rule in the Islamic world. But you seem to find that very difficult to understand, and until you can understand that I can see why picking a side and virtue signalling out of ignorance has some appeal. I suggest you actually read the article posted above with an open mind.
I know your position, I was talking about mine. We disagree, that is all. Unless of course you don't agree that we can have differing opinions on the matter.....?
Yes you have a position, but you have nothing to back it up except virtue signalling. Flat earthers have a position also, doesnt make them any more knowledgeable on the shape of the planet...
I don't really classify the selective Twitter posts as evidence to back up either, which is all I've seen from you
Did you not read the article that was posted? Are you seriously questioning wether the Hijab is a divisive subject in Islam?
Do you think the statements form the ladies in thise Twitter posts are fake? Because they are on Twitter? What was selective abut them? They were their words.Stop digging Canefan. You are clearly way out of your depth on this subject.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque