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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
I’ve been wondering if someone might step up and say something like this . Good on him .
Yep, it's wider than you think. The hearing will be very interesting -- RA may find that early grandstanding comes back to bite them in the arse, both legally and with players.
Oh fuck I hope so !!!
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
Absolutely.
Like it or not we live in an age where saying the wrong thing via social media can mean losing your job and it’s the case in any number of professions and industries. Why can’t people understand that?
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I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
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@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Maybe he would keep his personal feelings to himself?
Refusing to answer would be quite damning I would think.
You would like to think they wouldn't set a trap like that. But if they did he wouldn't be the first public figure who asked that questions only be about his sport and not his personal life. Besides, I don't recall Folau being asked his opinion, he just offered it up on his own for public consumption. Funny thing is we know how he feels and he did not attract heat until he made those feeling public. For the second time. After being warned.
Isn’t that what lead to the leaving of Ali Lauititi from the Warriors? He was asked to name his main priorities and he had his beliefs/religion ahead of the club
It sounds familiar. Officially they questioned his commitment, they didn't say they fired him for his views?
Pretty sure that’s what happened though I doubt it was official
Made sense of course, given he was the best 2nd rower in the game and one of the most gifted league players in the NRl
Let’s give him the flick because he put god above an average league club -
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Yes, and, ermm, absolutely no!
I’d be terrified for a couple reasons:
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He says what the Quran does, and all hell breaks loose, he could lose his contract; or....
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He says the politically-correct tolerant, diverse & inclusive woke-progressive answer, and a fatwa immediately goes on his head Salman Rushdie-style, because the Quran says if a Muslim goes against the will of Mohmammad, Allah’s perfect prophet, he his a heretic and has to die. That is a sin punishible by death.
So please, for Allah’s sake, do NOT ask Sonny Bill that question!!
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
Absolutely.
Like it or not we live in an age where saying the wrong thing via social media can mean losing your job and it’s the case in any number of professions and industries. Why can’t people understand that?
Oh believe me we get it. That is exactly what we are pushing back against. Free speech is not just a law to keep governments in check, it's a value that underpins our (free) society. I'm not going to sit by and say "oh well that's just the consequences today" as radical lefties ensure completely disproportionate punishments are dished out to people that are not PC enough for their liking.
Also for the record, there was absolutely nothing in Folau's contract that forbid him to use social media like this. The only thing they have him on is an apparent breach of the code of conduct - the same code of conduct other players and notably their head coach breach on a weekly basis. The code of conduct also contradicts itself as it states discrimination based on religious views is also forbidden. It is not worth the paper it is written on.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
Yeah that's pretty bloody disturbing.
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
So how is excluding christian beliefs and the ability to express those believes inclusive? This action is the very opposite of inclusive. And wasnt Falous post all about having a squeaky clean life? Or was it not the right type of squeaky clean life? Are QANTAS and ARU now the arbiters of what a squeaky clean life is?
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It’s not the end of the story — at all.
I think Israel is being a silly boy here. I am an atheist and he tells me I’m going to Hell, a scary imaginary place I don’t believe in. But I respect his religious convictions, the same as I used to respect Iceman who would never play rugby on a Sunday. Misguided, certainly, but I respected them all the same. The fact is, whether we rugby fans like it or not, some of our fave players have higher priorities, and religion is one of them. When you are telling religious people to keep their mouths shut and know their role, that does not serve a society that promotes values of tolerance and diversity and inclusivity. What it does is expose them as massive frauds. This isn’t simply a labour matter. This is about the entire culture, and if you think Folau stepping over a line is the “end of the story,” you are sadly mistaken.
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@Siam said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Stargazer hate speech in a legal sense, like the hate speech that you just posted about their not actually having brains?
See how slippery this slope is?
You know what expressions are, don't you? You generally don't use them literally ...
I have not posted about people literally "not actually having brains". I've used an expression; an expression that means "people being smart". i used that in the context of people being smart not to do something that could get them fired. The opposite of that is people doing something that is not so smart, like doing something that can get them fired (while they want to keep their job). That's not hate speech; not by a long shot.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
Reading what Kerevi actually wrote, it reads more as a dig at the media than a real apology. Obviously, they blew it up as if it was.
..
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Yup, it reads just like an apology, because that’s exactly what it is. I’m not a mind-reader here, but if there’s any subtext, yeah, he’s cleverly giving the media their pound of flesh, because he’s not so foolish as to know that scalps is what they’re after. If he’s skeptical of their motives, it’s because he’d have to be an ignorant clod not to be.
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So Kerevi, Alaalatoa and Tupou all publicly support Folau. RA needs to tread carefully, it's one thing not making the semis at the RWC. It's another coming dead last - the sport is already struggling over there.
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@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
So Kerevi, Alaalatoa and Tupou all publicly support Folau. RA needs to tread carefully, it's one thing not making the semis at the RWC. It's another coming dead last - the sport is already struggling over there.
You say that likes it’s a bad thing
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It keeps being said that Folau can hold whatever beliefs he wants. He just can't publicly express them while in the employ of someone who has expressly forbidden him to say that.
If I share titty pics around my workplace, or associate my work with titty pics, I'd expect much the same punishment. And let me tell you: my position as Exalted First Cardinal in The Church Of Titty Pics wouldn't save me.
But of course, once you go down the "MAH FREEDUMB!" path, nobody can possibly win except the people holding shit beliefs.
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
"Free speech" is a construct used quite often for shit people to say shit things. Say what you want, but be prepared for the consequences.
What makes Folau different to this is that religion is protected, and titty pics aren't. The issue is that they are genuinely held religious beliefs - and international human rights pitch those directly against the damage done by being a homophobe.
Interestingly, if he'd posted solely on homosexuals without the cover of being Christian, he'd not have a leg to stand on. It's the religion that makes this a confounding factor.
Also, I'm with you if you want to get titty pic distribution protected as a human right
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Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions