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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Also as a comparison we have these campaigns in operation for known Australians seeking legal fees
There would be a very strong argument against Senator Hanson-Young’s level of “inclusiveness” with some of her comments over the years....
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@barbarian I don't think this was ever a rugby issue mate. The moment ARU allowed some tweets but not others this was never about rugby but more about virtue signalling to a fan base of rugby people who didn't really care what he'd tweeted.
You appear to apportion no responsibility to the ARU, I notice, just all blame to a sovereign individual exercising his legal right to appeal.
Presumably the ARU have all their ducks in a row and they'll demonstrate good governance and be fine, in the face of this appeal. If not, will you still blame Israel for bankrupting AR?
Get woke go broke
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@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
@barbarian I don't think this was ever a rugby issue mate. The moment ARU allowed some tweets but not others this was never about rugby but more about virtue signalling to a fan base of rugby people who didn't really care what he'd tweeted.
You appear to apportion no responsibility to the ARU, I notice, just all blame to a sovereign individual exercising his legal right to appeal.
Presumably the ARU have all their ducks in a row and they'll demonstrate good governance and be fine, in the face of this appeal. If not, will you still blame Israel for bankrupting AR?
If Israel wins with damages (acknowledge it's a big if) then yes I will blame him. How could you not?
I don't disagree with RA's course of action, though I acknowledge some people did (jury is very much out on the proportion of fans in each camp). And they could have taken steps earlier to prevent the situation from happening, sure.
But surely you'd forgive them for not thinking that their actions would see them end up in the High Court as a test case for religious freedoms in the Australian workplace.
Which I suppose is my broader point. If we remove the prospect of an entire sport going under (which is the damages component), then I think the case takes on a slightly different tone.
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https://www.acl.org.au/donate_izzy
The fund is now $400,000 already raised in hours 😂😂😂
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@Jaguares4real will never know, but how many of them will just be the same ones donating thier refund from fundme as opposed to 'new' donations.
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@barbarian good reply, thanks. An entire sport going under leads me to look in the direction of the administration, rather than one sole individual. A bit rich blaming 2 tweets if that were to happen.
Obviously the outcome of this mess will cause all of us to reassess or stance on this.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
@barbarian I don't think this was ever a rugby issue mate. The moment ARU allowed some tweets but not others this was never about rugby but more about virtue signalling to a fan base of rugby people who didn't really care what he'd tweeted.
You appear to apportion no responsibility to the ARU, I notice, just all blame to a sovereign individual exercising his legal right to appeal.
Presumably the ARU have all their ducks in a row and they'll demonstrate good governance and be fine, in the face of this appeal. If not, will you still blame Israel for bankrupting AR?
If Israel wins with damages (acknowledge it's a big if) then yes I will blame him. How could you not?
I don't disagree with RA's course of action, though I acknowledge some people did (jury is very much out on the proportion of fans in each camp). And they could have taken steps earlier to prevent the situation from happening, sure.
But surely you'd forgive them for not thinking that their actions would see them end up in the High Court as a test case for religious freedoms in the Australian workplace.
Which I suppose is my broader point. If we remove the prospect of an entire sport going under (which is the damages component), then I think the case takes on a slightly different tone.
Bolded bit.
What, denying a multi millionaire the chance to play in a world cup after 4 years preparation, because of a tweet, and there's no way he was going to sue?
Not in this day and age mate. That's a consideration for small businesses let alone multi million dollar organisations. Foolishly naive and worthy of criticism
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@Siam I suppose I should be more clear.
I think the prospects of litigation were good. But the kink in this case has been his complete refusal to discuss any form of settlement, which is normally where these things all end.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the worst case scenario was that you settled out of court (for some percentage of his contract) and he went off to Japan.
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@Siam said in The Folau Factor:
What, denying a multi millionaire the chance to play in a world cup after 4 years preparation, because of a tweet, and there's no way he was going to sue?
haha, not really relevant given recent goings on....
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@taniwharugby I guess we'll get a rough idea when this fund crosses $800,000.00. It's just crossed $500,000.00 now. From a personal point of view I had no intention of giving money as I thought others having a similar issue were much more deserving (and his wording about where the funds were going was dodgy at best) but after the gofundme shutdown I'm starting to be tempted. I'm sure if the crazies go crazy enough then I'll probably donate just to feel like I'm pissing them off. I'm still following the 'Yes' campaign from the same sex referendum on facebook the crazies there got me very close to supporting the 'No' campaign with some of their antics.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Siam I suppose I should be more clear.
I think the prospects of litigation were good. But the kink in this case has been his complete refusal to discuss any form of settlement, which is normally where these things all end.
You'd be forgiven for thinking the worst case scenario was that you settled out of court (for some percentage of his contract) and he went off to Japan.
There’s still a prospect of a settlement given the various steps in this legal process.
This type of Fair Work application basically forces the employer to come to the table, there were always IMO at least, going to be legal/PR games that would occur before any court date.
It’s not too different when a party to a court proceeding will background media prior to a trial.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@taniwharugby I guess we'll get a rough idea when this fund crosses $800,000.00. It's just crossed $500,000.00 now. From a personal point of view I had no intention of giving money as I thought others having a similar issue were much more deserving (and his wording about where the funds were going was dodgy at best) but after the gofundme shutdown I'm starting to be tempted. I'm sure if the crazies go crazy enough then I'll probably donate just to feel like I'm pissing them off. I'm still following the 'Yes' campaign from the same sex referendum on facebook the crazies there got me very close to supporting the 'No' campaign with some of their antics.
It's a very difficult one. On the one hand I have zero sympathy for Ishmael. I hate fanatical God bothering twats like him almost as much as I hate SJWs. Unless he's a total idiot he also must have realised that AR had no choice but to sack him. And as mentioned previously, only the most deluded, arrogant tosser would publically proclaim that most of the people who pay his ridiculous salary are going to hell.
But on the other hand, this whole woke, corporate censorship crap has to be called out and stopped. It's particularly the case when these corporations will happily abandon those apparently vital principals when it helps their bottom line (think multiple tech companies in China and the Middle East, Nike's sweatshops, Qantas with Emirates and Brunei, or AR re-signing an unrepentent homophobe). They're as hypocritical, repugnant and greedy as the clergy back in the day. If this case results in them not being able to police what their employees may say or think during their spare time then bring it on.
So yeah, worthy cause but a pretty shit and unworthy champion.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Yep I think this quote is apt:
Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.
I'd say the LGBTTQQIAA2P+ movement is starting to resemble a penis
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Yep I think this quote is apt:
Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.
I'd say the LGBTTQQIAA2P+ movement is starting to resemble a penis
Huh? Isn't that also Pfalaue?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
greedy as the clergy back in the day.
No "back in the day" about it. Phillowe is proving you correct right now, he is a preacher after all.
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The GoFundMe banning backfired spectacularly, only hardened peoples’ resolve, and has the residual effect of confirmation bias for many people who suspected Big Tech has it’s politically-correct SJW thumb on the scales trying to indoctrinate people politically, socially and culturally. I maybe wrong, but for some of us who aren’t hard leftists those are the optics.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
has the residual effect of confirmation bias for many people who suspected Big Tech has it’s politically-correct SJW thumb on the scales trying to indoctrinate people politically, socially and culturally
Which is nothing new - Big Religion built the template for thought control and crushing social diversity centuries ago.
As you say, the optics depend on where you sit, particularly for issues like this, and the changing times of what people consider acceptable/tolerable.
I saw a tweet recently on another topic to the effect of: "When people say 'you can't say anything nowadays!' they mean 'I've noticed racism is much less tolerated than it was' ... "
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
The GoFundMe banning backfired spectacularly,
I'd say that it certainly didn't hurt the Folau cause, and may have even been planned that way by his PR team.
But "spectacularly" should really be judged on whether he gets many more donations this time around from the general public - so take off $100K from the ACL and he's on $668k.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
has the residual effect of confirmation bias for many people who suspected Big Tech has it’s politically-correct SJW thumb on the scales trying to indoctrinate people politically, socially and culturally
Which is nothing new - Big Religion built the template for thought control and crushing social diversity centuries ago.
As you say, the optics depend on where you sit, particularly for issues like this, and the changing times of what people consider acceptable/tolerable.
I saw a tweet recently on another topic to the effect of: "When people say 'you can't say anything nowadays!' they mean 'I've noticed racism is much less tolerated than it was' ... "
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
The GoFundMe banning backfired spectacularly,
I'd say that it certainly didn't hurt the Folau cause, and may have even been planned that way by his PR team.
But "spectacularly" should really be judged on whether he gets many more donations this time around from the general public - so take off $100K from the ACL and he's on $668k.
Or maybe it's because actual racism is so rare these days that people have to desperately search for it or redefine it?
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions