Hong Kong
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@Rembrandt said in Hong Kong:
@Snowy from the people you know in HK, are they pretty informed on how dangerous China is to them?
Yes. That is why they are protesting and that is why they are worried. It was also why Britain gave so many BNO passports during the handover, and Beijing agreed to a special HKSAR passport - so that people could leave. It was actually done reasonably well by comparison to Brexit (low bar I know).
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@Rembrandt said in Hong Kong:
@Snowy from the people you know in HK, are they pretty informed on how dangerous China is to them?
I have a mate originally from a Chinese coastal city whose pretty woke to it all mainly due to the HK influence in his city. Has some pretty incredible stories, the government reach is pretty long and there are approaches from government types even in foreign countries (had one such occurrence when we were at a movie together). He writes about it but all under an assumed name due to the danger to his family. Reading stories like the below doesn't surprise me in the least, add in huge re-education camps and organ harvesting from political prisoners and you can see why HK folk need to stand up hard right now regardless of consequences.
regardless OF CONSEQUENCE? (sTUPID CAPSLOCK)
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@Hooroo if this sort of stuff can happen as far away as New Zealand... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/23/im-being-watched-anne-marie-brady-the-china-critic-living-in-fear-of-beijing
“Beginning in late 2017, Brady has had her home burgled and her office broken into twice. Her family car has been tampered with, she has received a threatening letter (“You are the next”) and answered numerous, anonymous phone calls in the middle of the night, despite having an unlisted number. The latest came at 3am on the day her family returned home after a Christmas break. “I’m being watched”, she says."
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Ah yes One country; two systems i.e. Our system and the one we pretend to let you have.
And therein lies the truth, unfortunately. It has taken them a while to get to it.
It's bloody awful though for the people. They have had colonialism - twice. Their own preference for capitalism or socialism is ignored and they did ignore it all for along time until...
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@Snowy yep. Plus Hong Kong is nowhere near as important to China in relative terms as it was in 97.
I work for a HK headquartered company. Always had very strong relationship with Beijing (Chair was on the Organising Committee for the 10th anniversary of the handback etc).
The internal reports we are getting and the warnings about staff remote working etc are the type we normally see from Africa
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I guess the test will be to see how much the protesters are willing to sacrifice. If sufficient numbers are willing to die and shed blood then I can't see it ending well.
I don't think Beijing gives a shit about the optics. They are an economic superpower in their own right and have plenty of countries in their pocket (Australia amongst them). The outrage will probably only last a week until people get distracted by Twitter or something a Kardashian has done. Beijing will probably happily take the short-term negative publicity if it means subduing HK permanently. They couldn't get away with it in 97 but they could now.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel given the existing tensions with the US, I don’t think it will boil over quickly because if this issue escalates with the world watching (many countries citizenry are being affected by the airport strikes for example), then any lack of action by Beijing or any hardline action by Beijing will get entangled.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Hong Kong:
@Rancid-Schnitzel given the existing tensions with the US, I don’t think it will boil over quickly because if this issue escalates with the world watching (many countries citizenry are being affected by the airport strikes for example), then any lack of action by Beijing or any hardline action by Beijing will get entangled.
For sure, but so many countries have hitched their wagons to China and are dependent on them. Furthermore, no country is willing to go to war with China over this.
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Another media item this morning in the 'if that can happen here, what could happen across a small land border' files:
Cameron said these types of approaches by CCP representatives in New Zealand was nothing new, but the nature of the requests had changed over time.
“They’ve become more brazen as time moved on. The more funding and international students, the more confident they are that they can tell universities what to do.”
Cameron said the average New Zealander did not know this type of influence was a reality, “and I don’t think they want to know about it”.
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@Donsteppa said in Hong Kong:
'if that can happen here, what could happen across a small land border' files
Yeah, they can bring a fair bit of pressure to bear.
"The Civil Aviation Administration of China’s demands also included the airline submitting aircrew lists for Cathay flights entering Chinese airspace for pre-approval. Flights which did not go through the procedure would be barred from its airspace.
As a result of the threat of losing the right to fly to and over Chinese airspace, Cathay has cracked down hard on staff. On Monday, the company threatened to sack any employee who actively supported the protest movement, including taking part in the illegal airport demonstrations."Two pilots sacked so far and two other staff members.
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@Rembrandt said in Hong Kong:
He is the biggest hope for the HK people. Can't see anyone else standing up.
There actually isn't anyone else. Who else has the clout?
Yep, and even then it's a big ask for a small area of land right on the Chinese border. Interesting times...
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@Rembrandt said in Hong Kong:
Hopefully there is enough money at risk from big players that some good old fashioned rational self interest might save the day.
Yep, I'm thinking the trade war/related implications are the one (only?) thing that might stay Beijing's hand.
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The thing is, how can Beijing back down from this and avoid future protests and, most importantly, potential protests on the mainland? Could it be the case of weighing up the short-term international outrage and financial pain against allowing a movement that could be the spark that eventually topples the regime? China has been compared to Kaiser Wilhelm's Germany. I reckon that's pretty spot on, but I hope to Christ they have the good sense not to go the full retard like Bill did.