Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Kirwan
Ron Bull is a traditional indigenous food harvester from the Southern Coast of New Zealand. His whakapapa includes Waitaha, Kati Mamoe and Kai Tahu, have been involved in the harvesting preservation, preparation and sharing of food for many generations. Their creation narratives make the specific links between people and the natural environment and therefore inform an innate knowledge and affinity to both the food and the land and sea that it comes from.
He has used these skills as a chef, with over 25 years in the hospitality industry, before moving into education. He is currently employed in a director role at the Otago Polytechnic overseeing indigenous curriculum development and the embedding of culture into the organisation. He is also a foundation member of the Kaihaukai art collective, who respond to questions of food and identity through art installations and collaborations. This forms the foundation of his research agenda: Indigenous food and identity.He draws on traditional knowledge systems to inform his teaching practice. This includes language and concepts and how they are applied to practical situations as well as the socio-political conditions that inform identity. He is very aware of how this fits with constructing his own identity, as a bicultural New Zealander from the South.
All very laudable I'm sure but how does it qualify him to talk about tourism or the economy?
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@dogmeat Yeah, have to agree. It's sort what Baron is worried about, people with an idealogical stance using this disaster as an opportunity to reshape things with their world view.
There are real world consequences to tanking the tourism sector, so many jobs and people affected.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback China does appear to be returning to some semblance of normality (based on observable) economic data. For how long who knows?
Meanwhile the US is in the middle of an absolute shit storm. I get you are triggered by the C word but it's not nonsense to suggest that, compared to more laissez faire western democracies, tightly controlled East Asian governments have an advantage in the fight against CV because they have more obedient populations.
The important point I think is that this is not a binary discussion. It's much more nuanced than deaths vs the economy. Striking the balance of protecting as many as possible while not destroying the economy is the delicate balancing act every government around the world is trying to perform.
We already "waste" multi millions of dollars every year on people who are going to die anyway and I don't think anyone begrudges that expense. This is simply an extrapolation, that I think the majority support - at this time.
What I would like to see is the source data for Cindy's repeated assertion that 100 years ago those countries that locked down most severely came out better off economically in the medium term.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan
Ron Bull is a traditional indigenous food harvester from the Southern Coast of New Zealand. His whakapapa includes Waitaha, Kati Mamoe and Kai Tahu, have been involved in the harvesting preservation, preparation and sharing of food for many generations. Their creation narratives make the specific links between people and the natural environment and therefore inform an innate knowledge and affinity to both the food and the land and sea that it comes from.
He has used these skills as a chef, with over 25 years in the hospitality industry, before moving into education. He is currently employed in a director role at the Otago Polytechnic overseeing indigenous curriculum development and the embedding of culture into the organisation. He is also a foundation member of the Kaihaukai art collective, who respond to questions of food and identity through art installations and collaborations. This forms the foundation of his research agenda: Indigenous food and identity.He draws on traditional knowledge systems to inform his teaching practice. This includes language and concepts and how they are applied to practical situations as well as the socio-political conditions that inform identity. He is very aware of how this fits with constructing his own identity, as a bicultural New Zealander from the South.
All very laudable I'm sure but how does it qualify him to talk about tourism or the economy?
I don't think he himself was claiming expertise at all.
He seems to simply be saying that this is an opportunity to check the tyres on the bus while it isn't moving.
He isn't throwing tourism under a bus just saying it is a chance to see if we can do things differently so that gain in one sector doesn't place strain elsewhere.
The general sentiment of recalibration opportunity is what many good businesses and organisations are using the shutdown for. I think plenty of individuals will also have the breathing space to think about what is really important to them and act accordingly as well.
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I think if the world borders remain tight for a sustained period, most of the tourist dollars NZers spent outside NZ will end up being spent in NZ, one reason many dont holiday here is the cost, so if the industry wants to get back on it's feet, appealing to the average NZer that would typically go to Fiji, Gold Coast, Bali etc is going to be key.
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@dogmeat countries that have coped well with the pandemic generally have one of two characteristics, or sometimes both. Strong government guidance and leadership, and a compliant population. Population density and degree of isolation could be extenuating circumstances. There is no one blueprint to success (assuming that the Scandinavian experiment works out).
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Strong government guidance and leadership, and a compliant population.
4 weeks ago I would have said we have none of those....
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@Crucial I didn't say he was claiming expertise - if he was doing that he'd have to be posting here...
As i said to @Kirwan we don't know the context of his comments and I agree we need to think about the mix of tourists and the overall numbers. The fault is with the journo (again) They tell you Shamubeel Eaqub is an expert and then quote Ron Bull inferring he also has expertise - but more on titi than tourism
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think if the world borders remain tight for a sustained period, most of the tourist dollars NZers spent outside NZ will end up being spent in NZ, one reason many dont holiday here is the cost, so if the industry wants to get back on it's feet, appealing to the average NZer that would typically go to Fiji, Gold Coast, Bali etc is going to be key.
Absolutely. We are a bit of a stingy, spendthrift lot when it comes to internal tourism. We tend to think that the prices are set for 'rich overseas tourists' and there's no way we are going near 'tourist traps'.
The industry will have to work hard to turn that thinking around but balance it with not undercutting themselves when external tourism starts up again.
Many operations will go under as they are setup solely for wealthy overseas tourists and their model won't adjust to a local clientele, but also many are in a position to cut prices to stay afloat.
As an example, operators like those doing the Dart River Jetboats targeted the Chinese tourist market with package deals. Casual local tourists were priced out. They may have to rethink their model.
Rental Cars and Campervans may have to slash prices as well. -
@Crucial i get pretty sick of the "tourism only targets rich overseas customers, and has priced locals out of the market" argument that comes up all the bloody time, and was raring its head a couple of months ago when we already knew tourism was fucked.
These types of comments have no idea the margins that tourism businesses operate at, especially when, for many, the biggest cost is labour, which gets more expensive every year (typically in front of CPI). Our pricing is market driven, especially in a competitive environment (like Cairns, or Rotorua), we generally don't get to move prices very much, as the ITOs just move elsewhere.
Add in the fact almost every operation i know has a local's discount of at least 20%, and i find the argument rarely holds water.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an example, operators like those doing the Dart River Jetboats targeted the Chinese tourist market with package deals. Casual local tourists were priced out. They may have to rethink their model.
Agree. We were near Huka Falls last year, and thought about doing a jet boat ride. At $139/adult, I wasn't super keen. Would rather eat a fantastic meal somewhere; seemed quite pricy for a ride that's less than an hour or so
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback
Meanwhile the US is in the middle of an absolute shit storm. I get you are triggered by the C word but it's not nonsense to suggest that, compared to more laissez faire western democracies, tightly controlled East Asian governments have an advantage in the fight against CV because they have more obedient populations.Clearly not as triggered as you think as it took a bit to figure out what the C stood for. I would argue that they dont so much have obedient populations as obedient journalists, police, army and judicial system. Big difference, most countries have obedient populations, but hose populations are obedient because they have a variety of news, an honest police force and a fair judiciary. Obedience through trust in the system. Those ruled by communism are obedient through fear of the system.
The important point I think is that this is not a binary discussion. It's much more nuanced than deaths vs the economy. Striking the balance of protecting as many as possible while not destroying the economy is the delicate balancing act every government around the world is trying to perform.
We already "waste" multi millions of dollars every year on people who are going to die anyway and I don't think anyone begrudges that expense. This is simply an extrapolation, that I think the majority support - at this time.
Agree, and whilst I think the NZ govt is making more and more mistakes, I try not to judge via hindsight to much. One of the reasons I got annoyed with the min wage increase is that the impact is predictable and a competent govt would have spotted it. I think the wage subsidy was done brilliantly and many countries copied. So it isnt just partisan brick bat throwing.
What I would like to see is the source data for Cindy's repeated assertion that 100 years ago those countries that locked down most severely came out better off economically in the medium term.
That would be reassuring.
I am also losing faith in 'modeled data' as they all seem to be very different and very wrong. -
We thought about doing this before we got locked down, but at $850 for the family (admittedly for 2.5hrs) jusy couldn't justify it.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
What I would like to see is the source data for Cindy's repeated assertion that 100 years ago those countries that locked down most severely came out better off economically in the medium term.
she didn't say that, did she? that's, well, an astounding thing to say in her position.
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@mariner4life I thought she'd been pretty good on any statements like that - but may have missed this one. If she did say that I'd definitely be interested in how they can possibly know at this stage!
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We thought about doing this before we got locked down, but at $850 for the family (admittedly for 2.5hrs) jusy couldn't justify it.
We did a family holiday to Fiji and we did a jet ski safari, cost us $1200, I woinced but did it as it seemed like a really cool trip.
Would never spend $1200 on any local tourism venture like that.
Double standards, no logical justification and frankly a bit of a dick attitude as helping local business should be important. I am going to work hard to change my attitude. -
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial i get pretty sick of the "tourism only targets rich overseas customers, and has priced locals out of the market" argument that comes up all the bloody time, and was raring its head a couple of months ago when we already knew tourism was fucked.
These types of comments have no idea the margins that tourism businesses operate at, especially when, for many, the biggest cost is labour, which gets more expensive every year (typically in front of CPI). Our pricing is market driven, especially in a competitive environment (like Cairns, or Rotorua), we generally don't get to move prices very much, as the ITOs just move elsewhere.
Add in the fact almost every operation i know has a local's discount of at least 20%, and i find the argument rarely holds water.
Hang on. I'm not saying that companies are overcharging for their market or what they offer. I'm saying that if they have a model that only works when overseas tourists pay high prices then they need to have a re-think. It may mean that they can't operate, but there will be plenty that could run a light version at lower prices for a domestic market.
When you travel a good distance you do tend to be more willing to cough up more as there is a factor of maybe not having another chance to do/see something. Domestically you tend to be a little tighter. It is a psychological thing. It's not that locals are priced out, just that there perception of value is different than when they travel.
It's the same everywhere. Locals don't spend money in touristy areas as the prices are higher.
Tourism does target willing spenders (overseas tourists). There's no getting around that fact. That doesn't mean that they are ripping people off, just that their business model offers value to that market. If they want to pull through on a domestic market there will need to be some clever thinking.
Take something like bungy jumping down south. They have very big setup costs and a lot of H&S and training costs. However, they also employ enough people to be able to process a bus load quickly. I'm fairly sure they will run a leaner operation for a while and pull through. Domestic tourists are also more likely to want to drive themselves to the sites so places like Nevis may offer a parking option at the bottom of the hill rather than only a shuttle from town/Kawarau Bridge.Not great on the jobs front but if the businesses adjust for a while they could stay afloat domestically.
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I think sometimes it just comes down to a holiday being an overseas thing as a getaway.
I did a holiday back to NZ last year with some mates as a tourist and spent a bucketload doing touristy stuff in the North/BoP/HB.
I likely wouldn't have done the same if I still lived in NZ and my holiday would have been to Asia or the Islands (for examples). But I would probably do odd weekend trips to touristy areas in NZ when hosting visitors from overseas.
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David Clark went to the beach with his family, I get he is the health minster, I get it was wrong. But I am sooo bloody sick of this nonsense. He made a mistake, apologized, there was no spite no malice, no dishonesty, now apparently his career is over. Bullshit.