Coronavirus - Overall
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@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Overall:
It increasingly feels like there's an optimist/pessimist dynamic as much as any political one. Quite a few people seem determined that there's no going back to normal, or that 'the end is nigh' etc..
Those would be the same people supporting theses restrictions saying this is unprecedented, ignoring the magnificent irony of invoking the tragic precedent of the 1918 flu if we don't...
If there's one undeniable truth of human progress since, it's been about making our lives more comfortable and a higher standard of living. We will trend back to that, blissfully ignorant of the advantages provided to the wealthy and powerful who have advised politicians how to manage the economic fallout. For example in Australia:
The threshold for share placements in any 12-month period has been temporarily raised from 15 per cent to 25 per cent. Companies can now also do a two-for-one entitlement offer without shareholder approval when the previous limit was a one-for-one, and can include the entitlement issue stock when calculating the 25 per cent placement limit, which effectively means a company can place 75 per cent of its pre-raising stock with unknown parties, as long as it also does a two-for-one non-renounceable entitlement offer as well. About a week before announcing the $130bn relief for financially distressed businesses, the government issued a statement headed “Relief for financially distressed businesses” in which, among other things, the penalty for trading while insolvent was completely removed for six months. Also, companies now have six months instead of 21 days to respond to a creditor’s statutory demand for payment. The combination of these two things means that, like small shareholders, creditors are now at the mercy of unscrupulous company directors and their lawyers.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I am starting to become disheartened by the public's reaction, I have a good friend on FB post some article that we should expect to have our borders closed for 3-5 years or permanently because a cure may never be found and vaccines may be ineffective, like the common cold. Fuck that. It is ludicrous, but more concerning is this bland acceptance of a distopian future.
My feeling is that some people secretly (sometime overtly in the current climate) desire to live in a dystopian future - it completely absolves them of any personal responsibility for anything in their lives and, in the case of conspiracy theorists / lefty types, confirms everything they believe about the world.
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@junior said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I am starting to become disheartened by the public's reaction, I have a good friend on FB post some article that we should expect to have our borders closed for 3-5 years or permanently because a cure may never be found and vaccines may be ineffective, like the common cold. Fuck that. It is ludicrous, but more concerning is this bland acceptance of a distopian future.
My feeling is that some people secretly (sometime overtly in the current climate) desire to live in a dystopian future - it completely absolves them of any personal responsibility for anything in their lives and, in the case of conspiracy theorists / lefty types, confirms everything they believe about the world.
That. And sitting around in lockdown, getting bored and having internet access.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@junior said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I am starting to become disheartened by the public's reaction, I have a good friend on FB post some article that we should expect to have our borders closed for 3-5 years or permanently because a cure may never be found and vaccines may be ineffective, like the common cold. Fuck that. It is ludicrous, but more concerning is this bland acceptance of a distopian future.
My feeling is that some people secretly (sometime overtly in the current climate) desire to live in a dystopian future - it completely absolves them of any personal responsibility for anything in their lives and, in the case of conspiracy theorists / lefty types, confirms everything they believe about the world.
That. And sitting around in lockdown, getting bored and having internet access.
Imagine, though, if broadband went down. Doesn't bear thinking about!
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@junior said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I am starting to become disheartened by the public's reaction, I have a good friend on FB post some article that we should expect to have our borders closed for 3-5 years or permanently because a cure may never be found and vaccines may be ineffective, like the common cold. Fuck that. It is ludicrous, but more concerning is this bland acceptance of a distopian future.
My feeling is that some people secretly (sometime overtly in the current climate) desire to live in a dystopian future - it completely absolves them of any personal responsibility for anything in their lives and, in the case of conspiracy theorists / lefty types, confirms everything they believe about the world.
That. And sitting around in lockdown, getting bored and having internet access.
Imagine, though, if broadband went down. Doesn't bear thinking about!
Not to be flippant but TV and internet are essential services.
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@junior said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I am starting to become disheartened by the public's reaction, I have a good friend on FB post some article that we should expect to have our borders closed for 3-5 years or permanently because a cure may never be found and vaccines may be ineffective, like the common cold. Fuck that. It is ludicrous, but more concerning is this bland acceptance of a distopian future.
My feeling is that some people secretly (sometime overtly in the current climate) desire to live in a dystopian future - it completely absolves them of any personal responsibility for anything in their lives and, in the case of conspiracy theorists / lefty types, confirms everything they believe about the world.
That. And sitting around in lockdown, getting bored and having internet access.
Imagine, though, if broadband went down. Doesn't bear thinking about!
The lack of affirmation woiuld be a killer
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Especially for @dogmeat and everyone else who thinks the wuflu is racist
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback that’s a great rant, and I agree with it.
The devil on My shoulder wants to ask him if he would take the corona virus vaccine if it came available, after all the shit he spoke about the flu vaccine and vaccines in general.
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“Viruses come from China like shortstops come from the Dominican Republic.”
Classic.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback Thanks, a solid point in there that naming a disease after a place is not racist.
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Taiwan continues to do a superb job
Last 5 days new cases - 3,3,1,2,3
Not bad for the 2nd most population dense country in the world behind Bangladesh , right next to China , massive amounts of Taiwanese working in China, paying less than 10% tax for universal healthcare, and best of all, there has been very little shutdown of the economy.
One caveat - govt allowed a kind of spring break to occur over the long weekend (tomb sweeping) last week. Perhaps their first mis-step. Will know with a few days if cases increased.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Especially for @dogmeat and everyone else who thinks the wuflu is racist
Interesting seeing these more palatable folk like Maher, Eric Weinstein, Melissa Chen, Rogan, Sam Harris basically parroting a certain orange man whom they claim to despise and struggle to give any credit to. I genuinely can't work out whether they are oblivious to this to the point of cognitive dissonance or delusion and believe they are acting on principle. Or whether they are intentionally maintaining a facade of 'orange man bad' for perhaps their own personal gain (or more accurately to avoid the personal losses).
Whatever the case it is still probably a net positive they are doing it.
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@Rembrandt Not to think the orange man is a baffoon takes a kind of cognitive dissonance/delusion I would argue. But always taking the opposite view to the orange man would even trump the orange man's silliness and regardless of your politics you have mentioned some very intelligent people (Eric Weinstein, Sam Harris). I am sure they agree with some things that politician says.
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Only thing with more buffoonery than an Orange Man is a Buffoon infected with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Some of the stuff his political opponents have come up with in the last few weeks has been, in political terms, truly idiotic
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Only thing with more buffoonery than an Orange Man is a Buffoon infected with Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Some of the stuff his political opponents have come up with in the last few weeks has been, in political terms, truly idiotic
Politics and media, both have come up with incredible idiocy over recent times.
I really dislike Trump as a person. I'd like to have thought that Americans would dislike having such a man as their leader, but it wasn't to be. So be it. On the flipside, I do not disagree with everything he has done in the last 4 years. I agree with some of the things he says right now. And I'm happy to say when I do.
But I wholeheartedly reserve the right to criticise an action or comment he makes or says in its own right, and I totally resent (not accusing you of accusing me) being called a hater or a sufferer of some derangement syndrome when I'm critical.
It's just so typical of where we are these days that you can't opine on a single event or action without getting cast as a radical hater one way or the other.
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If anyone wants to continue the Trump conversation, please do it here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/431/us-politics/11557 -
@Duluth said in Coronavirus - Overall:
If anyone wants to continue the Trump conversation, please do it here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/431/us-politics/11557Thanks for the reminder. And hell no!!!
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A leading German epidemiologist who predicted the coronavirus crisis in Europe is now calling for governments to end the lockdown.
Prof Alexander Kekulé warned the virus was about to engulf Europe and publicly urged Angela Merkel’s government to start screening international travellers as early as January.
But he now believes the lockdown is in danger of going on too long and causing more damage than the virus, and has drawn up a plan for how it can be safely lifted.
“It’s impossible to wait for a vaccine,” Prof Kekulé told The Telegraph. “The quickest we could have a vaccine ready is in six months. Based on experience, I’d say the reality is closer to a year. We can’t stay under lockdown for six months to a year. If we did that our society and our culture would be ruined.”
Prof Kekulé, the head of microbiology at Halle University, has been the Cassandra of Germany’s coronavirus crisis. As early as January 22, he called for travellers to be tested for the virus at airports and borders. He appeared on national television, but his warnings fell on deaf ears. Now the world is in the grip of a widespread pandemic:
“If we had started testing and following the chains of infection in January, we could have contained the epidemic here without resorting to a lockdown,” he says. “If you can get to people by the time they’ve infected 20 people you can stop it. But by the time it’s 400, there’s no chance.”
Not for the first time in this crisis, Prof Kekulé finds himself on the opposite side of the argument from Mrs Merkel. When he urged her government to do more about the virus in January, she chose to wait and see. Now he says the lockdown can be safely lifted by following a simple three-point plan.
First, he says, the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions who are most vulnerable to the virus must remain in isolation.
“We have to persuade them to stay at home, and that means we have to find ways of making it bearable for them, such as apps that will allow them to order their shopping or continue their social life,” he says.
“If they are determined to go out, fine — but they have to wear full FFP medical standard masks.”
That brings us to the second point in Prof Kekulé’s plan: a move from social distancing to what he calls “smart distancing”.
“We need to adapt distancing to the situation. A cashier at a supermarket check-out, for instance, is going to be exposed to infection all day. He needs to wear a mask, he needs proper hygiene measures. A taxi driver needs to learn not to touch his face after handling money.”
Basically, we all need to get used to wearing facemasks, Prof Kekulé says. “If you look at Hong Kong, they managed to avoid a major outbreak there and they’re very close to Guangdong in mainland China, which was badly affected. One of the key differences was they started wearing facemasks early in Hong Kong.”
By March, when the virus had Germany in its grip, he was calling for the border to be closed and schools to shut down.
“At that stage a lockdown was the only option to slow the spread and prevent hospitals being overwhelmed,” he says. “But now we have to consider the possibility that a long lockdown may end up doing more harm than the virus.”
Angela Merkel has dampened hopes of restrictions ending any time soon, telling Germans this week: “We must not be reckless now. We could very quickly destroy what we have achieved.”
An ordinary surgical mask is sufficient for those who are not especially vulnerable, he says, and there’s no need to wear one while going for a walk. “In an open air setting a mask isn’t that effective. But in any indoors setting when others are there, we should all be wearing them.”
He’s even come up with a slogan to convince people, “Kein Held ohne Maske”, and an English version: “Be a masked superhero”.
Thirdly, and most controversially, Prof Kekulé says we have to let the young get the virus.
“People under 50 are very, very unlikely to die or get seriously ill from the coronavirus,” he says. “We have to let them get infected so they can develop immunity.”
Essentially, this is a return to the herd immunity plan once backed by the UK and widely seen as discredited. But Prof Kekulé argues that once the outbreak is under control and hospitals are not overwhelmed, there is a place for it.
Children are least at risk so the lockdown should be lifted at schools and kindergartens first, he says — a plan already adopted by Denmark, which plans to reopen schools after Easter.
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A leading German epidemiologist who predicted the coronavirus crisis in Europe is now calling for governments to end the lockdown.
“People under 50 are very, very unlikely to die or get seriously ill from the coronavirus,” he says. “We have to let them get infected so they can develop immunity.”
Doesn't he watch the news?
Plenty of under 50s getting seriously ill and dying in the UK