Coronavirus - Overall
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger Who to believe? Doctors mate.
But which ones? Some swear by the Trump treatment. Others don't.
Ones not paid by Trump, have never donated to him or are jockeying for a job.
Plenty to chose from and that treatment isn’t looking promising at all.
Why do you think Trump has recommended this treatment.
Its cheap so no big profits for anyoneMy view is he's talked to honest doctors and they told him a cheap treatment is available
Cheap is not popular with many so its a battle between promoters of expensive treatments. And the cheap routeAnd now hes put his neck on the chopping block. Even though you don't believe him but fail to see what his incentive would be to do this. Its not money related so why do it. Except that hes got advice that he trusts and hes passing it on. and testing it himself
Because when Trump makes a mistake, usually talking about something he has no idea about, he doubles down on it.
Testing something on yourself is medically useless, it helps nobody. It's the equivilient of getting medical advice from celebrities (cough, cough Jenny McCarthy). We have a tried and tested scientific method to measure effectiveness and safety.
This approach might appeal to those who do their research online but it's completely useless.
Do you honestly believe Trump pulled this treatment out of thin air. And starting this treatment without consulting his doctor?
And here's one example where its being used. As recommended by the Chinese. But the key is noted below (in bold). That is FOLLOW YOUR DOCTORS ADVICE if you get Covid 19.
“We decided to ask for help from those who have gone through this. The experts from Shanghai and Wuhan gave us recommendations for patient management. We were told that it is key that a mild or moderate patient does not become severe. They explained that they used hydroxychloroquine for this, but never azithromycin (an antibiotic for respiratory infections) due to the associated cardiac complications,” Ruiz said.
In the group of 88 patients recovered up to Friday, April 17, the use of this drug has allowed covid-19 control tests to be negative, he added.
Marjorie Obando confirmed that up to Thursday, April 16, hydroxychloroquine treatment had been given to 1,361 people,
“The prescription must be carried out as part of the medical record, individually for each patient, considering the benefit-risk ratio, pre-existing health conditions, medications they take and the possible drug interactions, that is why it is not given to all patients,” said the director of Pharmacoepidemiology.
You mean Trump isn't talking through his arse because he took advice recommended from the same country that he is accusing of deliberate incompetence (and worse).
Your logic couldn't get any funnier if it tried.So if China and Costa Rica say it's OK then it must be good? Let's just ignore our own clinical trials where we have some knowledge of the rigour. The ones that say either it has no noticeable effect and that without medical clearance could be dangerous.
...and how's that 5G eh?
When did Trump accuse China of incompetence? Its more not being upfront and honest
When did Trump take advice re treatment from China. -
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger Who to believe? Doctors mate.
But which ones? Some swear by the Trump treatment. Others don't.
Ones not paid by Trump, have never donated to him or are jockeying for a job.
Plenty to chose from and that treatment isn’t looking promising at all.
Why do you think Trump has recommended this treatment.
Its cheap so no big profits for anyoneMy view is he's talked to honest doctors and they told him a cheap treatment is available
Cheap is not popular with many so its a battle between promoters of expensive treatments. And the cheap routeAnd now hes put his neck on the chopping block. Even though you don't believe him but fail to see what his incentive would be to do this. Its not money related so why do it. Except that hes got advice that he trusts and hes passing it on. and testing it himself
Because when Trump makes a mistake, usually talking about something he has no idea about, he doubles down on it.
Testing something on yourself is medically useless, it helps nobody. It's the equivilient of getting medical advice from celebrities (cough, cough Jenny McCarthy). We have a tried and tested scientific method to measure effectiveness and safety.
This approach might appeal to those who do their research online but it's completely useless.
Do you honestly believe Trump pulled this treatment out of thin air. And starting this treatment without consulting his doctor?
And here's one example where its being used. As recommended by the Chinese. But the key is noted below (in bold). That is FOLLOW YOUR DOCTORS ADVICE if you get Covid 19.
“We decided to ask for help from those who have gone through this. The experts from Shanghai and Wuhan gave us recommendations for patient management. We were told that it is key that a mild or moderate patient does not become severe. They explained that they used hydroxychloroquine for this, but never azithromycin (an antibiotic for respiratory infections) due to the associated cardiac complications,” Ruiz said.
In the group of 88 patients recovered up to Friday, April 17, the use of this drug has allowed covid-19 control tests to be negative, he added.
Marjorie Obando confirmed that up to Thursday, April 16, hydroxychloroquine treatment had been given to 1,361 people,
“The prescription must be carried out as part of the medical record, individually for each patient, considering the benefit-risk ratio, pre-existing health conditions, medications they take and the possible drug interactions, that is why it is not given to all patients,” said the director of Pharmacoepidemiology.
You mean Trump isn't talking through his arse because he took advice recommended from the same country that he is accusing of deliberate incompetence (and worse).
Your logic couldn't get any funnier if it tried.So if China and Costa Rica say it's OK then it must be good? Let's just ignore our own clinical trials where we have some knowledge of the rigour. The ones that say either it has no noticeable effect and that without medical clearance could be dangerous.
...and how's that 5G eh?
When did Trump accuse China of incompetence? Its more not being upfront and honest
When did Trump take advice re treatment from China.I apologise. I misread your post to imply that Trump used CR as an example of support for his stance.
The rest of my point stands in that he is ignoring his own experts in promoting the use of a drug.
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@Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Some more good news.
More deserving of it than many of the non-entities who get gongs.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The rest of my point stands in that he is ignoring his own experts in promoting the use of a drug.
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@MiketheSnow looks like he was a top class inner elbow player in his day.
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@booboo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Someone ghosted an excellent letter to the WHO from President Trump:
Pretty damning summary.
The actions of China and WHO are at the root cause of a multi year global recession and still people find a way to turn it all back on Trump.
The adults of the world, now staring at the ashes, want to know what the fuck happened and how. We also realise that the yanks have a right to know what their disproportionate funding buys these days - just as Morrison, Adern and others want an inquiry.
It seems some people have gotten all the way through to acceptance, of the Kubler Ross model, but there's a fair few of us stuck at anger and China and the WHO have the smoking gun. Fucked if this mess doesn't get cleaned up properly. Not cleaning up the GFC in 08 properly has a lot to do with the shit we're in now.
Hear hear to those asking questions of CCP and WHO at this time.
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@Siam The counter argument would be Trump fan-bois buy in to his paranoia and attempts to blame anyone but himself - even his own appointees - rather than accept that the President of The US both through his actions and inactions has exacerbated what was already a crisis into a catastrophe.
It is shameful that the richest and most resourced country on earth has been shown up to be so unprepared, so unable to adapt, so riven by distrust and personality politics. Trump isn't solely to blame for all of that but he has to take his share of the responsibility.
Turns out appointing a clown to lead you in a time of crisis isn't all that funny.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Siam The counter argument would be Trump fan-bois buy in to his paranoia and attempts to blame anyone but himself - even his own appointees - rather than accept that the President of The US both through his actions and inactions has exacerbated what was already a crisis into a catastrophe.
It is shameful that the richest and most resourced country on earth has been shown up to be so unprepared, so unable to adapt, so riven by distrust and personality politics. Trump isn't solely to blame for all of that but he has to take his share of the responsibility.
Turns out appointing a clown to lead you in a time of crisis isn't all that funny.
Which reminds me of this...
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@Siam Fact checking by The Washington Post
https://s2.washingtonpost.com/2961629/5ec592befe1ff654c2e25c75/5e6ecba0ae7e8a59485000c3/16/52/b4f917a3d8ff79ab8ddfe7ea6d46162aI know the Post has its own anti-Trump agenda but nevertheless when the editor of The Lancet comes out and says that the "credible report" from The Lancet that Trump says WHO ignored doesn't exist and was never written then it at the very least suggests Trump is a tad confused and not across the subject.
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@dogmeat no, the counter argument to what I wrote is that China and WHO's actions didn't lead to a global pandemic and recession. And that they took every reasonable measure to stop the virus from spreading worldwide. Their reticence for an independent inquiry is quite damning on this point.
You insulting the millions voters in another country has nothing to do with the origin and subsequent global damage of the COVID crisis.
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Khan just on BBC brekky...
"I realise there's been some confusion over the 'be alert' message, so..."
"Stay at home, if you can. If you can work from home, work from home but if you really must work and can't stay home, go to work. But don't go to the beach."
Oh wow you really cleaned that message up fella, bet all the Bojo haters are happy now.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Siam Fact checking by The Washington Post
https://s2.washingtonpost.com/2961629/5ec592befe1ff654c2e25c75/5e6ecba0ae7e8a59485000c3/16/52/b4f917a3d8ff79ab8ddfe7ea6d46162aI know the Post has its own anti-Trump agenda but nevertheless when the editor of The Lancet comes out and says that the "credible report" from The Lancet that Trump says WHO ignored doesn't exist and was never written then it at the very least suggests Trump is a tad confused and not across the subject.
Bear in mind the editor of The Lancet, Richard Horton, was pretty much caught bang to rights lying in the national media when criticising Johnson's government.
If there's one thing this crisis has exposed it's that those whose professional judgement we should have faith in, appear more than happy to let their political leanings cloud their "professional" judgement.
You can expect the media to be sloppy and biased. We expect more from doctors and scientists
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Really interesting article from an Oxford Epidemiologist.
Thinks a lot more people have been infected than will show up on antibody tests and queries if the lock-down cure is/was actually worse than the disease. E.g. keeping vulnerable people isloated in care homes may have made infection rates worse
https://unherd.com/2020/05/oxford-doubles-down-sunetra-gupta-interview/
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@Victor-Meldrew It is an interesting article and quite plausible given the lack of reliable data that we have and in all honesty it chimes with my slightly changing view that we have maybe gone too hard with lockdown. However and referring to your previous post, it is not difficult to ascertain her political leaning.
Edit: Also, if her hypothesis is correct, it would make me fear for NZ given the relative lack of exposure.
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The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is conflating the results of two different types of coronavirus tests, distorting several important metrics and providing the country with an inaccurate picture of the state of the pandemic. We’ve learned that the CDC is making, at best, a debilitating mistake: combining test results that diagnose current coronavirus infections with test results that measure whether someone has ever had the virus. The upshot is that the government’s disease-fighting agency is overstating the country’s ability to test people who are sick with COVID-19. The agency confirmed to The Atlantic on Wednesday that it is mixing the results of viral and antibody tests, even though the two tests reveal different information and are used for different reasons.
This is not merely a technical error. States have set quantitative guidelines for reopening their economies based on these flawed data points.