Coronavirus - New Zealand
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so 2 new cases today, arrived in NZ from India on 5 June, child who travelled with them not been tested.
Doesnt say if they are still in quarantine, given thier 14 days ended yesterday...
edit: Newshub provides better detail
There have been two new cases of COVID-19 detected in the past 24 hours, Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield said on Saturday afternoon.
They are a couple who returned from India and arrived on June 5. Both are in their 20s. Both were asymptomatic, but the infection was picked up on the day 12 test while in managed isolation.
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interesting to see our testing numbers back up too, daily test numbers from yesterday looks to be as high as during our 'peak' with a quick scan of numbers only 7 may higher than yesterday with 7,812
GUess it is due to the shit this week more people back to get tested
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@Winger Vulnerable New Zealanders' right to life outweighs the civil liberty of freedom of movement for the recent arrivals until such time as the assumption of having Covid-19 can be tested. That's also the basis of my simple plan - the assumption is that they have it until they are proven not to by testing and monitoring of symptoms. People don't have to take the test, but if they don't, then the assumption remains that they have it until the 14 days has passed.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger Vulnerable New Zealanders' right to life outweighs the civil liberty of freedom of movement for the recent arrivals until such time as the assumption of having Covid-19 can be tested. That's also the basis of my simple plan - the assumption is that they have it until they are proven not to by testing and monitoring of symptoms. People don't have to take the test, but if they don't, then the assumption remains that they have it until the 14 days has passed.
What about the rights of a owner of a tourism business that relies on overseas visitors
I'm in the older group now. My view its up to me to protect myself. Either by staying inside (that UK friends have done as their immune system is shot) or by looking after myself. Not some person that has had his or her life ruined (or partly ruined) by losing their job or business.
And life contain risks. My view its a balance between say the economy and sensible risk with this flu. So open the borders to low risk countries (like say Aust) and accept this risk to help get the tourist industry back on its feet. Otherwise the tourist industry is dead as no one will want to be locked up for 2 weeks.
This Govt went way over the top. The price was far too high. And if people willingly accept it once then what next. Maybe the speed limit cut in half.
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Had friends arrive today from Australia with their 2 kids. They booked flights to Auckland a few weeks ago, with a domestic flight to QT a few hours later where they own a house. They'd obviously hoped to do managed iso there, and I reckon a week earlier would probably have been allowed to - and they would totally have respected the rules. But they had zero chance once the sisters did their thing.
Still, they're OK, just a day into iso so far, but positive. Helps to have each other, at least so far, that may well change soon!
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger Vulnerable New Zealanders' right to life outweighs the civil liberty of freedom of movement for the recent arrivals until such time as the assumption of having Covid-19 can be tested. That's also the basis of my simple plan - the assumption is that they have it until they are proven not to by testing and monitoring of symptoms. People don't have to take the test, but if they don't, then the assumption remains that they have it until the 14 days has passed.
What about the rights of a owner of a tourism business that relies on overseas visitors
I'm in the older group now. My view its up to me to protect myself. Either by staying inside (that UK friends have done as their immune system is shot) or by looking after myself. Not some person that has had his or her life ruined (or partly ruined) by losing their job or business.
And life contain risks. My view its a balance between say the economy and sensible risk with this flu. So open the borders to low risk countries (like say Aust) and accept this risk to help get the tourist industry back on its feet. Otherwise the tourist industry is dead as no one will want to be locked up for 2 weeks.
This Govt went way over the top. The price was far too high. And if people willingly accept it once then what next. Maybe the speed limit cut in half.
As long as tourists have a 2 week quarantine returning home, they aren't going anywhere whether we have them or not. The uncertainty and recessions everywhere also don't help as potential tourists don't want to spend the money and airlines are not keen to add capacity.
That aside, the right to earn a living is an ancient common law right (it's referred to in the Magna Carta), but it's not unlimited, and the evolution of human rights over time has always been alongside quarantine as our principal weapon against epidemics.
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger so testing all comers to see if they are actually sick then?
Don’t you be coming on here with your logic and common sense.
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@JC said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger so testing all comers to see if they are actually sick then?
Don’t you be coming on here with your logic and common sense.
I always find it amusing when anybody actually tries to debate with Winger, especially when relying on logic and/or common sense as a tactic.
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It's more fun that playing out of the frypan and into the fire with our departed Baron!
Guess I was just feeling a bit spicy today lol
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@Kruse In Winger’s world we have Schroedinger’s Catch-22 Escher’s Staircase Möbius health screening. You have the right to move about freely and can’t be quarantined if you’re healthy. But because people can be asymptomatic, at any given time you may or may not be sick and the only way to know is to check. But you can’t check because healthy people have the right not to be checked. So therefore you have to be treated as if you were sick. Which involves quarantine. Which is a breach of your rights if you are healthy. But the only way to tell if ... etc. ad infinitum
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger so testing all comers to see if they are actually sick then?
I was too tired to make the point. Thank you for doing it for me. Arguing with Winger reminds me of this
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@JC said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kruse In Winger’s world we have Schroedinger’s Catch-22 Escher’s Staircase Möbius health screening. You have the right to move about freely and can’t be quarantined if you’re healthy. But because people can be asymptomatic, at any given time you may or may not be sick and the only way to know is to check. But you can’t check because healthy people have the right not to be checked. So therefore you have to be treated as if you were sick. Which involves quarantine. Which is a breach of your rights if you are healthy. But the only way to tell if ... etc. ad infinitum
Im just making the point that in the past leaders haven't quarantined healthy people. In fact sick people have been allowed to travel and work so even sick people have been free to pass their flu around (and applauded for it for their dedication to work) to everyone else. That pissed me off on public transport with seriously ill people on the train or bus. Or at work half full (as one sick person passes it on to everyone else) of sick workers.
So we have moved from one silly extreme to another one. That has never been done before. And has destroyed Western economies. My view its too high a price to pay when less extreme measures could have been used (Sweden plus protect the vulnerable for eg). And still could be now. It would however include a risk cost evaluation that this Govt (and most Western Govts) seems incapable of doing.
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@Kruse said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@JC said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger so testing all comers to see if they are actually sick then?
Don’t you be coming on here with your logic and common sense.
I always find it amusing when anybody actually tries to debate with Winger, especially when relying on logic and/or common sense as a tactic.
So logic and common sense = destroying the economy as the only option. Not a sensible risk cost assessment
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@Winger You would do yourself a lot of favours if you stopped trying to present everything as black or white. The thing with false dichotomies is they are false.
Half the posters in this thread, including myself, have expressed real frustrations and concerns about the economic impact of the lockdown, so your hardly a contrarian in that regard.
But to suggest the only alternatives are a wrecked economy or letting people do whatever they want unless somehow they are classified as vulnerable (and Jesus only knows how you would do that without infringing people’s rights) lacks nuance that you must surely know is part of the story here.
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kruse said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@JC said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger so testing all comers to see if they are actually sick then?
Don’t you be coming on here with your logic and common sense.
I always find it amusing when anybody actually tries to debate with Winger, especially when relying on logic and/or common sense as a tactic.
So logic and common sense = destroying the economy as the only option. Not a sensible risk cost assessment
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