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@Crucial said in US Politics:
show zero sign of independently looking at Trump.
I'm not that concerned about the small stuff. Unless it impacts on the big picture. So I don't like Trump being so close to his daughter and son-in-law. But if Trump moves in the direction I want (less selling the US worker out re globalization and low cost labor etc, stopping pointless wars to help the military industrial complex, Stopping the slow process of removing our free speech and human rights, stopping lets destroy the Wests economy and NZ farming to reduce the temperature by a fraction of one degrees etc) then I'm happy. Its helps that Trump is not boring and so PC
"What is your definition of “strictly above board"
One example. Biden stopping the Ukraine investigation of a Company (by withholding money) that his son just happened to be getting large payments from. If Trump had done this the media would be rightly screaming about it.Surely you can agree that this is an example of someone abusing their position. Even of Biden's son had the relevant skill-set and experience to justify these payments Biden still should not have done this. And not only because his son was involved
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
show zero sign of independently looking at Trump.
I'm not that concerned about the small stuff. Unless it impacts on the big picture. So I don't like Trump being so close to his daughter and son-in-law. But if Trump moves in the direction I want (less selling the US worker out re globalization and low cost labor etc, stopping pointless wars to help the military industrial complex, Stopping the slow process of removing our free speech and human rights, stopping lets destroy the Wests economy and NZ farming to reduce the temperature by a fraction of one degrees etc) then I'm happy. Its helps that Trump is not boring and so PC
"What is your definition of “strictly above board"
One example. Biden stopping the Ukraine investigation of a Company (by withholding money) that his son just happened to be getting large payments from. If Trump had done this the media would be rightly screaming about it.
You have some evidence of that?
Re: "the small stuff" that you aren't concerned about. It seems to only be 'small' when Trump related, but world ending if smaller from Biden. This is what I don't understand about your logic.
You have still failed to answer what Biden has done to supposedly be in China's pocket OR supported your Ukraine claims.
BTW, I'm not sure if you were aware but the Ukrainian President at the time has categorically denied any interference by anyone.
Yes, Hunter B got a well paying job from a country trying to suck up to the US hierarchy. That stinks. In fact it smells similar to Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China or the Kushner's getting favourable loan terms from China. Both things you pass off as 'small stuff' -
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
show zero sign of independently looking at Trump.
I'm not that concerned about the small stuff. Unless it impacts on the big picture. So I don't like Trump being so close to his daughter and son-in-law. But if Trump moves in the direction I want (less selling the US worker out re globalization and low cost labor etc, stopping pointless wars to help the military industrial complex, Stopping the slow process of removing our free speech and human rights, stopping lets destroy the Wests economy and NZ farming to reduce the temperature by a fraction of one degrees etc) then I'm happy. Its helps that Trump is not boring and so PC
OK, so we’ve established you are American, yeah?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
You have some evidence of that?
He bragged about doing it
Wow, why have federal prosecutors not seen that and acted on it?
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China
What really is the issue with this?
Now if her company received a 1 billion loan from a Chinese company. Or the CCP bought a huge value of her products at at grossly inflated price. Or if say his unqualified son or daughter was paid a $3 million consultancy fee by a Chinese Company etc. But trademarks for her crappy products. Big deal
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
Wow, why have federal prosecutors not seen that and acted on it?
A very good question. But maybe because he was vice-president at the time and the key appointments were all on his side
I don't think that's the correct answer
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China
What really is the issue with this?
Now if her company received a 1 billion loan from a Chinese company. Or the CCP bought a huge value of her products at at grossly inflated price. Or if say his unqualified son or daughter was paid a $3 million consultancy fee by a Chinese Company etc. But trademarks for her crappy products. Big deal
Trademarks for her crappy products. (Left out of trade war tariffs) processed at unusually fast pace just before a policy u-turn on ZTE? Any issues with that?
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China
What really is the issue with this?
Now if her company received a 1 billion loan from a Chinese company. Or the CCP bought a huge value of her products at at grossly inflated price. Or if say his unqualified son or daughter was paid a $3 million consultancy fee by a Chinese Company etc. But trademarks for her crappy products. Big deal
Trademarks for her crappy products. (Left out of trade war tariffs) processed at unusually fast pace just before a policy u-turn on ZTE? Any issues with that?
Wait, are you suggesting that a person has taken advantage of their senior politician father’s position to leverage themselves into a better financial position in another country? And that the reason for that might be so said country can curry favour with the political Dad? That’s got to be unprecedented, except for the other times it happened! As you said, they’re all as bad as each other
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@JC said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China
What really is the issue with this?
Now if her company received a 1 billion loan from a Chinese company. Or the CCP bought a huge value of her products at at grossly inflated price. Or if say his unqualified son or daughter was paid a $3 million consultancy fee by a Chinese Company etc. But trademarks for her crappy products. Big deal
Trademarks for her crappy products. (Left out of trade war tariffs) processed at unusually fast pace just before a policy u-turn on ZTE? Any issues with that?
Wait, are you suggesting that a person has taken advantage of their senior politician father’s position to leverage themselves into a better financial position in another country? And that the reason for that might be so said country can curry favour with the political Dad? That’s got to be unprecedented, except for the other times it happened! As you said, they’re all as bad as each other
Correct. Except in @Winger s world you can ignore those politicians that have policies you like while call out only those that you don't like.
There is a word for it
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
You have some evidence of that?
He bragged about doing it
Yep, bragged about getting a job done to root out corruption in Ukraine so that international loans could open up and help provide the country with what it needed the strengthen itself against Putin.
“The position regarding getting rid of Shokin was not Vice President Biden’s position; it was the position of the U.S. government, as well as the European Union and international financial institutions,” said Amos J. Hochstein, former coordinator for international energy affairs at the State Department and one of the few administration officials who directly confronted Mr. Biden at the time about his son."
Imagine that, a VP that gets something done
Again, just to be clear, Hunter Biden gets a leg up from his dad's name. That is pretty clear (and not unusual)
But, if you are judging Presidents on the totality of dodginess then IMO there are far more questions around Trump than Biden.
Which brings us back to the start of this. Two shit candidates but one is less shit than the other, unless like @winger you are happy to waive the bad stuff entirely if they have convinced you they are meeting some of your other politics. Fair enough, but then argue solely on policy and not dodgy (but legal) dealings.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
Yep, bragged about getting a job done to root out corruption in Ukraine so that international loans could open up and help provide the country with what it needed the strengthen itself against Putin.
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Fair enough, but then argue solely on policy and not dodgy (but legal) dealings.
You don't think Bidens actions were unconstitutional?
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@Frank said in US Politics:
Trump is going to try and point to a double standard in regard to racial crime coverage.
Extremely dangerous road to go down but likely inevitable with the current state of things.
What happens when that pandora box opens and the disparty becomes real?
Edit..Already happening in the replies.
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@Duluth said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Yep, bragged about getting a job done to root out corruption in Ukraine so that international loans could open up and help provide the country with what it needed the strengthen itself against Putin.
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Fair enough, but then argue solely on policy and not dodgy (but legal) dealings.
You don't think Bidens actions were unconstitutional?
Do you mean when he said he would withhold money? Was it an empty threat though? Who knows?
If it was Senate approved then that was against the rules, yes. However, never tested. Trump did the same, it was tested and deemed OK. -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Trump did the same
Except that Trump didn't do the same
He didn't threaten to withhold money. And he gave Ukraine the OK to investigate possible corruption (after the Ukrainian President brought it up). Not stop it.
So one wants to indirectly stop an investigation involving his son. The other gives the Ok to go ahead. But guess who the fake-news media and the democrats gun for
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Trump did the same
Except that Trump didn't do the same
He didn't threaten to withhold money. And he gave Ukraine the OK to investigate possible corruption (after the Ukrainian President brought it up). Not stop it.
So one wants to indirectly stop an investigation involving his son. The other gives the Ok to go ahead. But guess who the fake-news media and the democrats gun for
I really don't know if I'm I trying to discuss with the deluded or insane.
I was talking about Biden's threat to withhold senate approved money. Trump actually did withhold Senate approved money.How do you know what Biden was doing? The Hunter thing may well have been a welcome side effect but Biden was under instruction to get rid of Shokin. " it was the position of the U.S. government, as well as the European Union and international financial institutions"
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@Frank said in US Politics:
Trump is going to try and point to a double standard in regard to racial crime coverage.
He's not wrong in this case
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