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@Billy-Tell said in US Politics:
Having one person unilaterally grant pardons is the antithesis of democracy.
I think it's more the antithesis of an independent judiciary.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
How many were bankers in 2008
I'm sure Senators Gramm, Leach, Bliley & Slick Willie would know.
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@pakman said in US Politics:
What I do recall is that owing to epidemics and splintering of the tribal group the wealth created dissapated pretty dramatically. Ring any bells?
Nope. Only researched NZ's attitude to Germany and what was going on in Samoa. Some very serious concerns about the treatment of Samoan culture in both the media and government and across pakeha/maori lines.
I think we were gifted in NZ with some outstanding leaders at that time - unlike the US today. (just to bring us back on topic)
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
what I find interesting, and I've done a little googling but not definitive
people seem to be saying Trump will pardon 150 odd people plus maybe 100 he had already pardoned up until the end of the last year which I thought was a lot, until looking into it
Obama pardoned 1927, Bush 200, Clinton 459, Bush snr 77, Reagan 406, Carter 566, Nixon 926, Johnson 1187...etc
so at 250ish...hes on the low end
Probably worth noting that most of those numbers include commutations, not just pardons. The Wikipedia article for Obama's acts of executive clemency says 1715 were commutations and the other 212 were pardons.
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@Godder said in US Politics:
@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
what I find interesting, and I've done a little googling but not definitive
people seem to be saying Trump will pardon 150 odd people plus maybe 100 he had already pardoned up until the end of the last year which I thought was a lot, until looking into it
Obama pardoned 1927, Bush 200, Clinton 459, Bush snr 77, Reagan 406, Carter 566, Nixon 926, Johnson 1187...etc
so at 250ish...hes on the low end
Probably worth noting that most of those numbers include commutations, not just pardons. The Wikipedia article for Obama's acts of executive clemency says 1715 were commutations and the other 212 were pardons.
good to know, i found the numbers in an article (they probably got them from wiki) and they mst have just bundled them all together, any idea how many commutation Trump passed?
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@Kiwiwomble You can check them out yourself if you want:
One thing that I found quite shocking was the number of old men on the list who were imprisoned for unconscionably long terms for non-violent marijuana related offences. There are guys on the list who have served 2 or 3 decades of a life sentence for handling something that is now legal in many parts of the US. I have no problem with a grant of clemency for something like that, but I'm amazed it has needed the President to step in to right something that seems to me to be obviously wrong.
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@JC said in US Politics:
@Kiwiwomble You can check them out yourself if you want:
One thing that I found quite shocking was the number of old men on the list who were imprisoned for unconscionably long terms for non-violent marijuana related offences. There are guys on the list who have served 2 or 3 decades of a life sentence for handling something that is now legal in many parts of the US. I have no problem with a grant of clemency for something like that, but I'm amazed it has needed the President to step in to right something that seems to me to be obviously wrong.
Stupidity in legal systems is widespread. I read an article yesterday about a woman in France who was declared dead by the courts during some endless complicated legal issues and now struggles to do anything including prove she is alive because she is officially dead.
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@Crucial True, but I wonder off the politicised nature of the US justice system with its political appointments and elected law enforcement officials is particularly prone to never admitting to its mistakes. For justice to be just it has to be dispassionate, and I'm not sure you can achieve that when some of the lawyers and judges involved want to use the outcomes as ads for their own political brand.
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@Tim To me the source matters, because you don't know whether something is genuine and real when sources like disclose tv post it, because they're known for their propaganda.
After looking at more credible/objective news sources, I've seen that they're reporting on protests where a group of people damaged the Democratic Party HQ building in Portland and, apparently, some other property, in Seattle.
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@Stargazer id say a decent % of this thread has some reference to the source of something posted, MSM etc
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@Kiwiwomble feels like he's gonna cop shit either way. Delays to be more (genuinely?) inclusive, or push ahead with a plan that only one group favours (with likely disagreement internally) and that flies in the face of working with the Reps.
US Politics