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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
He’s not even the question IMO. Only thing going for him is he’s not Corbyn.
Started off well then faded badly - swings with the wind and flip-flops everywhere. Have nagging doubts about his ability to make a decision and stick to it. BoJo's Captain Hindsight jibe has a lot of truth in it
Perhaps he'll sort out his party and provide the space for some decent leader to emerge. If so, that's not a bad legacy IMHO.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
Perhaps he'll sort out his party and provide the space for some decent leader to emerge. If so, that's not a bad legacy IMHO.
That is pretty much all you can ask for. A lot of the media love to underestimate Boris but the guy is special and with those kinds of characters all you can really do is wait for them to run out of steam or blow up.
Like you say he seems best placed to put some space between Corbyn and the future and might even an unforced error or two out of Boris. The ability to dress himself is an obvious plus.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
Perhaps he'll sort out his party and provide the space for some decent leader to emerge. If so, that's not a bad legacy IMHO.
That is pretty much all you can ask for. A lot of the media love to underestimate Boris but the guy is special and with those kinds of characters all you can really do is wait for them to run out of steam or blow up.
Like you say he seems best placed to put some space between Corbyn and the future and might even an unforced error or two out of Boris. The ability to dress himself is an obvious plus.
He's a good speaker too. Although not the most authoritative voice, but is very clear and easy to understand. When Boris had to give bad news press conferences and was trying to give our positivity and energy, a much more clear firm staunch delivery would have been better.
I actually think He needs to split his party to try and get the UK into a better situation. There are parallels with the US in the distance between right and left, and therefore the hostility between the two.camps is marked. I know I bang on and on about this, but ultimately it all comes down to, that's right, Twitter. People take their position then read / follow/ learn more and more about their position and do nothing other than trash the opposite. It's just not healthy at all.
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Boris tried to do something similar on election day end of 2019. clearly reaching out to the other side first and foremost offering an olive branch. However, the pandemic has kind of killed that for him. Biden sort of did the same ... but then made it unequivocal for men to say "I'm a bird" and be able to compete in womans sports; a very very far left position.
As others have alluded to, I'm not entirely sure Starmer gets this. His tactic at the moment seems to be sit there, lets the Tories implode and say "I told you so". Not sure that is a good approach myself, although it is one Boris & co are allowing him to do at the moment.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
I thought this was UK Politics?
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
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@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
Up there with, 'We have to talk'?!
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@pakman said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
Up there with, 'We have to talk'?!
Surely you mean "we have to talk, we have to talk, we..."?
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
@pakman said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
Up there with, 'We have to talk'?!
Surely you mean "we have to talk, we have to talk, we..."?
Going to use that on your 'educational' video?
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Reagan's line is up there with "tax and spend" as some of the most damaging rhetoric by a politician in the last 40 years.
Both of those lines taken at face value suggest that anarchy is the best government, which is absolute nonsense. Communism is also nonsense, as is unfettered capitalism, but politics and government is ideally about finding the balance between the extremes, not destroying government or individual capability.
The UK already has a centrist party formed from a split of the UK Labour Party, being the Liberal Democrats.
The Labour Party doesn't need to schism again - if there are centrists who don't like where it's going, they should go and join the Lib Dems. FPP makes it politically moronic to split parties, and even Corbyn, primary representative of the left wing of the Labour Party, understands that, which is why he didn't depart and take half the party membership with him.
Without a change in the electoral system to some sort of proportional representation, Labour and the Tories are stuck with managing wings of the parties, as anything else leads to the other side winning easily. The hard part is convincing internal wings/factions to get along for the sake of getting anything done, because while disunity is punished at the ballot box, that's easily forgotten in the heat of the moment.
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@Godder all very true mate.
I would classify myself as Centre right, but the lib dems are a complete clusterfuck so are unvotable.
But for me, Labour simply remain unvotable as well as they have too many influential hard left. I honestly think they care more about virtue signaling bullshit. The hardest done people in this country are the constantly trod upon deprived white youth, mainly up north.
And Labour do nothing for them.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Godder all very true mate.
I would classify myself as Centre right, but the lib dems are a complete clusterfuck so are unvotable.
But for me, Labour simply remain unvotable as well as they have too many influential hard left. I honestly think they care more about virtue signaling bullshit. The hardest done people in this country are the constantly trod upon deprived white youth, mainly up north.
And Labour do nothing for them.
See Brexit
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Godder all very true mate.
I would classify myself as Centre right, but the lib dems are a complete clusterfuck so are unvotable.
But for me, Labour simply remain unvotable as well as they have too many influential hard left. I honestly think they care more about virtue signaling bullshit. The hardest done people in this country are the constantly trod upon deprived white youth, mainly up north.
And Labour do nothing for them.
Until a Lib Dem leader comes out and says Clegg was a fluffybunny for letting his supporters and party down by selling his soul to the Conservatives, then the Lib Dems won’t get my vote
I don’t think I’m alone
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I'm actually warming to the concept that governments don't and can't change much at all, apart from external security (and even that's incredibly difficult) and short-term national emergencies- no matter how radical they profess to be.
No matter how much they focus on things like education or health, how many laws they pass or how much they spend, the literacy rate doesn't change much, medical outcomes don't change much and the crime rate is still pretty static, predictable and based on demographics.
Real changes (positive or negative) in things like crime rates and public health seem to be driven by the individual, their families and local communities and central government doesn't have much impact. I think Thatcher was onto something with her much-misquoted "No such thing as society" comments, and which Reagan's quote was also aiming at.
Maybe their be best role in today's society is less to govern and attempt change than to point out what needs to change, give people at the lowest practical level the tools to do it and provide the framework for that to happen?
Just some random, stream-of-conciousness bollocks from Meldrew Towers
British Politics