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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
Maybe they'll even improve women's health with some of the saved money. I'm imagining a utopia where smear results don't have to be FAXED cos no central system that all docs can access.
For a country as small as NZ, that's criminal.
FFS how hard can it be? We have a population less than Melbourne
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@paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@canefan spread out a tad more tho
Makes no difference in the electronic age. In fact, because we are spread out, a centralised IT system is a bigger advantage. And for a such a small population, implementing one is trivial.
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@kirwan oops, totally missed that we'd zoned in on the IT aspect of this. I totally agree with you all, no excuse not to have a centralised system for our health provision.
The Fern 101, I ain't got time to read shit. This is the way.
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@paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan oops, totally missed that we'd zoned in on the IT aspect of this. I totally agree with you all, no excuse not to have a centralised system for our health provision.
The Fern 101, I ain't got time to read shit. This is the way.
This is the way.
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@paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan oops, totally missed that we'd zoned in on the IT aspect of this. I totally agree with you all, no excuse not to have a centralised system for our health provision.
The Fern 101, I ain't got time to read shit. This is the way.
details schmetails
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@pakman said in NZ Politics:
Explaining the decision, the country’s foreign minister, Nanaia Mahuta, says her country is “uncomfortable” with expanding the alliance’s role, and that New Zealand should instead pursue its own bilateral relationship with Beijing. At the heart of it is a desire to forge closer trade ties with China, which presently accounts for 29 per cent of New Zealand exports.
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@pakman Yeah except Mahuta spoke yesterday saying we should develop alternative trading partners to China and seek to become less reliant on them.
Torygraph opinion piece is incredibly shonky.
Also ignores the fact that the Nats cosied up to China just as much. It's bloody difficult tightrope for NZ to walk. With the possible exception of Canada all our 5 eyes 'partners' have shafted us in the past and would again in a heartbeat.
The geopolitical reality is the 21st century will be dominated by China. Better to accept that and try to mitigate the impact than rail against it. Reminds me of Akl Uni Students Association passing motions roundly condemning Israel ...
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@mokey said in NZ Politics:
Tbh, all the other five eye countries are complete clusterfucks right now, I can see why we might want to keep options open (not saying China isn't just as bad)
We saw what it was like in the 80s when we dunked on our partners with the anti-Nuke bullshit. US knew the French were sending terrorists and didn't tell us.
Like it or not, we need the protection of Five Eyes, and we have to maintain that relationship.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
we need the protection of Five Eyes,
Do we really though? What tangible do we get from the relationship?
In the unlikely even that we did face an existential threat UK / USA aren't going to steam over the horizon to save us. 5 eyes didn't prevent the Chch mosque attacks.
I'm not saying we shouldn't be in, but I think it should be on our terms.
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@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
we need the protection of Five Eyes,
Do we really though? What tangible do we get from the relationship?
I hope you don't have any family or friends in active service.
Sending troops into hot areas without shared knowledge provided by these relationships would be pretty dumb. -
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
we need the protection of Five Eyes,
Do we really though? What tangible do we get from the relationship?
I hope you don't have any family or friends in active service.
Sending troops into hot areas without shared knowledge provided by these relationships would be pretty dumb.Devil's advocate, but don't we pretty much only send troops anywhere because of those relationships?
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
Tbh, all the other five eye countries are complete clusterfucks right now, I can see why we might want to keep options open (not saying China isn't just as bad)
We saw what it was like in the 80s when we dunked on our partners with the anti-Nuke bullshit. US knew the French were sending terrorists and didn't tell us.
Like it or not, we need the protection of Five Eyes, and we have to maintain that relationship.
We've basically been in 5 eyes since 1946, and your saying one of the partners knowingly didn't alert another partner of impending terrorist act on their soil? So, what is the point of it then?
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@rapido said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
Tbh, all the other five eye countries are complete clusterfucks right now, I can see why we might want to keep options open (not saying China isn't just as bad)
We saw what it was like in the 80s when we dunked on our partners with the anti-Nuke bullshit. US knew the French were sending terrorists and didn't tell us.
Like it or not, we need the protection of Five Eyes, and we have to maintain that relationship.
We've basically been in 5 eyes since 1946, and your saying one of the partners knowingly didn't alert another partner of impending terrorist act on their soil? So, what is the point of it then?
It works well when we work together. When we were dicks to the Americans over nuclear powered ships, they were dicks to us.
Is it right? Probably not, but we are a small fish in a big pond and need big friends.
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@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
we need the protection of Five Eyes,
Do we really though? What tangible do we get from the relationship?
I hope you don't have any family or friends in active service.
Sending troops into hot areas without shared knowledge provided by these relationships would be pretty dumb.Devil's advocate, but don't we pretty much only send troops anywhere because of those relationships?
I think there is some mixing up here about different forms of alliance and what 5 eyes agreement is. Helped along by the press throwing the term around as well.
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@rapido said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@mokey said in NZ Politics:
Tbh, all the other five eye countries are complete clusterfucks right now, I can see why we might want to keep options open (not saying China isn't just as bad)
We saw what it was like in the 80s when we dunked on our partners with the anti-Nuke bullshit. US knew the French were sending terrorists and didn't tell us.
Like it or not, we need the protection of Five Eyes, and we have to maintain that relationship.
We've basically been in 5 eyes since 1946, and your saying one of the partners knowingly didn't alert another partner of impending terrorist act on their soil? So, what is the point of it then?
Some history lessons may be of help.
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@kirwan I don't want to get drawn into the investment property argument but the Taxinda thing is specious. Every govt introduces new taxes.
During Nats last term off the top of my head National raised GST, started taxing Employers Kiwisaver contributions, introduced the brightline, applied GST to online purchases, increased ACC levies along with the normal excise increases on fuel, tobacco, alcohol etc.
According to IRD total tax revenue grew 35% overall, GST increased 89%, company tax 40% and individuals' tax 17%. A lot of that increase was due to increased taxable income or activity and they did lower both the highest tax rate and company tax but Key / English definitely weren't a low tax govt. Both parties follow their dogma Nats lowered tax for the so called super rich and companies, but raised GST. Labour raised tax for top earners but increased benefits and minimum wage. Both are following their respective philosophies. Neither are high tax parties or low tax. It is what it is.
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It kind of sucks that NZ is increasingly controlled by China. A left wing NZ govt having to bow down them and ignore massive human rights abuses for the $$$$ kind of shows how deep we are already in. Not saying it isn't pragmatic but in a larger sense is deeply worrying for the future.
NZ Politics