Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted. -
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
It makes a mockery of vaccination. It also makes a mockery of first world/ developed status if your health and immigration departments can't conduct child level risk analysis.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
Thanks Snowy.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again. -
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Considering Taiwan and Singapore are at the top of nations regarding covid response, I would like to think we would have a bubble sooner rather than later. I would imagine their precautions make us look like amateur hour
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Considering Taiwan and Singapore are at the top of nations regarding covid response, I would like to think we would have a bubble sooner rather than later. I would imagine their precautions make us look like amateur hour
It's very good here, but in the last week or so some Covid has broken out a bit in the north and the govt has not yet been able to trace the source. We have gone to level 2. Mask wearing outside has gone from 70% to 95%+ (at a guess)
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Considering Taiwan and Singapore are at the top of nations regarding covid response, I would like to think we would have a bubble sooner rather than later. I would imagine their precautions make us look like amateur hour
It's very good here, but in the last week or so some Covid has broken out a bit in the north and the govt has not yet been able to trace the source. We have gone to level 2. Mask wearing outside has gone from 70% to 95%+ (at a guess)
Where are you?
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Some protests were made, but there has been no backdown resulting from it that I'm aware of. I don't see why that won't eventually (eventually...) transfer into an approach towards vaccinations. There are four very high risk countries currently, despite any woke views: https://covid19.govt.nz/travel-and-the-border/travel-to-new-zealand/restrictions-on-travel-to-new-zealand-from-very-high-risk-countries/
The risk assessment about vaccinations will be the extent to which you can trust a document from somewhere. Or whether a travel bubble gets there first in some cases in the Pacific/Asia.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Considering Taiwan and Singapore are at the top of nations regarding covid response, I would like to think we would have a bubble sooner rather than later. I would imagine their precautions make us look like amateur hour
It's very good here, but in the last week or so some Covid has broken out a bit in the north and the govt has not yet been able to trace the source. We have gone to level 2. Mask wearing outside has gone from 70% to 95%+ (at a guess)
Where are you?
Taiwan.
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Considering Taiwan and Singapore are at the top of nations regarding covid response, I would like to think we would have a bubble sooner rather than later. I would imagine their precautions make us look like amateur hour
It's very good here, but in the last week or so some Covid has broken out a bit in the north and the govt has not yet been able to trace the source. We have gone to level 2. Mask wearing outside has gone from 70% to 95%+ (at a guess)
Where are you?
Taiwan.
You guys had an amazing response straight off the bat. My cousin lives there and things seem to have been reasonably normal. It helps to have a high level of general compliance
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.Considering Taiwan and Singapore are at the top of nations regarding covid response, I would like to think we would have a bubble sooner rather than later. I would imagine their precautions make us look like amateur hour
It's very good here, but in the last week or so some Covid has broken out a bit in the north and the govt has not yet been able to trace the source. We have gone to level 2. Mask wearing outside has gone from 70% to 95%+ (at a guess)
I’m suprised at that estimate - ours is 99.9% mask wearing. Absolutely no adult is not wearing a mask, and except for kids younger than 3 (the rule is that once they are 3, they should wear a mask) I dont see many kids not following it either. Covid is around (still about 1000 cases a day in TK) but its almost life as normal.
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@canefan As Frank says Taiwan has had an unexplained cluster emerge in the last week but IMO have been the global exemplar in terms of COVID response. Acted really early to shut the borders, great use of tech and masks to allow the country to continue on pretty much as normal. Don't know if they have the same sort of issues with fuck-knuckle denyers leading marches against masks etc though.
Singapore didn't do as well. They did a really good job initially but did the ever present Singapore thing of forgetting their guest workers existed and so allowed COVID to gain a foothold. Cue a very draconian and lengthy lockdown. Once they got on top of it it's pretty much been like NZ but with a little more relaxed attitude at the birder. Of course helped by a much more cooperative population and the ability to rain shit down on any transgressors. They still have cases though and have a hair trigger regarding jumping back into lockdown. One was being mooted only last week. Has their Hong Kong bubble ever eventuated.
Overall I think I'd rather have had te Taiwan response than the Kiwi one but the Kiwi one ahead of Singapore's but I don't think either Asian option would have worked here.
O
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
Taiwan according to Immigration NZ. There is a NZ visa office in Taipei. I think that their were political issues over our recognition of Taiwan in the past.
You in Taipei, or out of town? Where is the outbreak? Haven't seen much about it.
My ex employer was getting excited about the bubble with Singapore but not sure how long that would last. NZ is on their list too and they would love Taiwan. We used to have an expression that if they were going to fly to the moon they would go via Taipei.
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you have the vaccination in another country, does NZ still require you to quarantine when you return?
"If you have received a COVID-19 vaccination overseas, you will still need to secure a voucher and complete 14 days in New Zealand's Managed Isolation and Quarantine Facilities.12/03/2021"
Not completely up to date but I haven't heard anything to the contrary.
What?!?!
I fucking hope that is going to change.
If you are vaccinated and test negative two times (before boarding, after arriving), it makes no sense that that you should still need to sit in a fucking hotel room - at your own expense - for two weeks, just to see your Mum.
Yes it does at the moment. Sadly.
I get that some countries are able to be risk assessed well regarding vaccinations but there has to be a lowest denominator approach to avoid cries of favouritism or racism as happened when restrictions were placed on travel originating in India because testing certificates were not trusted.Shit. This could mean it is a looooong time before some people are able to go to NZ without being quarantined, despite being vaccinated.
I hope NZ trusts Taiwan (or is it Republic of China in NZ).
You say it is because some countries might cry racsim.
Wokeism strikes again.I did type that in a hurry and probably should have added some context.
Our current govt is getting tied in knots (often by the media) for trying to act decisively around a number of things and ends up with egg on it's face. eg the Public Service 'wage freeze' (which was actually quite clear if you bothered to read the detail that it was targeted at the 6 figure salaries - the next tier was only told to act with constrain but living cost, banding progress etc was all OK).
Given that they also cop it (sometimes deservedly) regarding every COVID case and perceived unfairness (migrant worker families, migrant workers,etc) and copped a backlash when they correctly assessed risk from India as high and that travel from India was making efforts to circumvent rules it is no wonder that at present they aren't willing to trust the processes to start picking and choosing countries for travel based on vaccinations.
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't around borders and this would be the same if it was National as well.
They have ministries well versed in writing policy and advising but not overly competent in acting.This isn't to mean that these 'vax passport' types of travel won't eventually happen or that other bubbles won't open. It's just that the more you open up the higher the risk and the more idiots you have to deal with that try to cheat their way in.
Personally I don't think the world situation is anywhere near stable enough at the moment to increase border risk.
The possible way around this would be to have COVID Visas but the cost would be borne by the traveller and have to include a share of setting up a whole new govt dept to process these and get the intel on how to verify claims of vaccination. Just adds yet another layer of bureaucracy.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan As Frank says Taiwan has had an unexplained cluster emerge in the last week but IMO have been the global exemplar in terms of COVID response. Acted really early to shut the borders, great use of tech and masks to allow the country to continue on pretty much as normal. Don't know if they have the same sort of issues with fuck-knuckle denyers leading marches against masks etc though.
Singapore didn't do as well. They did a really good job initially but did the ever present Singapore thing of forgetting their guest workers existed and so allowed COVID to gain a foothold. Cue a very draconian and lengthy lockdown. Once they got on top of it it's pretty much been like NZ but with a little more relaxed attitude at the birder. Of course helped by a much more cooperative population and the ability to rain shit down on any transgressors. They still have cases though and have a hair trigger regarding jumping back into lockdown. One was being mooted only last week. Has their Hong Kong bubble ever eventuated.
Overall I think I'd rather have had te Taiwan response than the Kiwi one but the Kiwi one ahead of Singapore's but I don't think either Asian option would have worked here.
O
Agree on all counts
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A Lancet article from August 2020 comparing the NZ and Taiwan approaches.
Both countries ended up with an elimination rather than mitigation. Quite an interesting read actually. Taiwan had a coronovirus plan ready and waiting while NZ ended up retro-fitting an influenza plan - would by my summary.
It's conclusion includes:
This pro-active response to COVID-19 in Taiwan is in contrast to the more reactive pandemic response in New Zealand. While some aspects of the Taiwan approach might not be acceptable in other jurisdictions, the potential social and economic benefits of avoiding a lockdown might alleviate some objections. Therefore, the Taiwanese model warrants further examination ...
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(20)30044-4/fulltext
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
While some aspects of the Taiwan approach might not be acceptable in other jurisdictions, the potential social and economic benefits of avoiding a lockdown might alleviate some objections
The critical word there is some.
the Taiwan approach seems to rely on pretty much 100% compliance. I simply can't see that occurring anywhere in the western world.
NZ's Influenza Pandemic Plan was a mitigation plan and was pretty developed. MoH had devised a 6 phase response to the pandemic. Below is a precis from the Pandemic Plan I wrote for our businesses when MoH first published 18 years ago
White – Planning for the Pandemic.
Yellow – Stand-By Prepare to initiate Action Plans
Red – Keep It Out There are confirmed cases of human-human flu overseas. Likely actions would include, closing NZ’s borders to all non-nationals, quarantining all recent arrivals and increased testing for symptoms.
Stamp It Out Confirmed outbreak(s) in NZ. Infected areas would be “ring-fenced’. All people in contact with confirmed cases would be traced and quarantined. Closure of all schools, churches and other places where people gather
Manage It Outbreaks have escaped from their controlled areas. Increase social distancing; provide what care can be made to affected persons
Green – Recover From It The move from Red to Green will be signalled when the outbreak abates or a vaccine is developed. This phase is concerned with managing affected people’s recovery.It should be noted that the transition from White to Red may be very quick – days rather than weeks. The Pandemic may also peak, ebb and then re-peak.
NZ’s strategy is all about slowing the movement from Yellow to Red as much as possible. An anti-viral vaccine cannot be developed until the virus appears in its human-human form. Authorities want to control the spread of the disease as much as possible to increase the time available for an immunisation programme to begin.
You can see that there was an acceptance that we would not be able to contain an outbreak forever and there were estimates of deaths in the tens of thousands. At some stage in mid March 2020 the government was convinced that this was unacceptable and decided to effectively ring fence every household in NZ to properly 'Stamp It Out' Still you can see large elements of the plan Aare recognisable in NZ's ultimate response. I don't think it was as reactionary as Lancet suggest. It was more fluid in response to changing circumstances and a different desired outcome but it wasn't like Europe or the US where things changed weekly.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@rapido said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You can see that there was an acceptance that we would not be able to contain an outbreak forever and there were estimates of deaths in the tens of thousands. At some stage in mid March 2020 the government was convinced that this was unacceptable and decided to effectively ring fence every household in NZ to properly 'Stamp It Out' Still you can see large elements of the plan Aare recognisable in NZ's ultimate response. I don't think it was as reactionary as Lancet suggest. It was more fluid in response to changing circumstances and a different desired outcome but it wasn't like Europe or the US where things changed weekly.
Described this way in Lancet:
New Zealand's plan did include an initial “Stamp It Out” phase, but was largely orientated towards mitigation. However, early evidence from China indicated that a mitigation strategy for addressing COVID-19 may not have been optimal given the high transmissibility and the relatively high infection fatality ratio of SARS-CoV-2 infection (which probably would have resulted in thousands of deaths and overwhelmed the health system in a country such as New Zealand) [[41]]. There was also good evidence from China indicating that the COVID-19 pandemic could be contained with a sufficiently vigorous response [[42]].