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@victor-meldrew TR are his initials. Typing his name triggers social media. Despite his personality he was the principle messenger of all these atrocities.
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@siam said in British Politics:
@victor-meldrew TR are his initials. Typing his name triggers social media. Despite his personality he was the principle messenger of all these atrocities.
Yes, it's a real danger when right-wing conspiracy theory nutters can whip up hatred more effectively because there is an actual conspiracy.
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I sometimes wonder for the Jocks if it's just better to let them go.
They're a chippy bunch at the best of times about England / Westminster, and now they have a leader that is clear as piss on her strong held view there. She's been shown up a bit recently with the call for non-independence to vote for her, and then immediately saying all the votes prove how much they want it. I can sort of understand the reasoning too, given that in the last referendum, they voted expecting to remain in Europe. So she does have a point.
What would be interesting (if the vote got through, which I suspect it wouldn't) would be how the subsequent application to the EU would go. The cans of worms that would happen for other part of the EU bloc (Catalonia, I'm looking at you) would be immense. It's hard to know where it would end, and undoubtedly, regardless of truth, the Jocks would blame England if they couldn't get in for whatever reason.
You then have the small problem that Scotlands overwhelmingly largest trading partner is the rest of the UK. So ultimately, it would be looking to align more strongly with lesser partners ...
I am somewhat influenced by Andrew Neil here, a political commentator who I greatly respect. But I don't see the point in standing in the way of the will of the people.
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The woman in the street
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@Victor-Meldrew Reported that Blair has given interesting interview to New Statesman about the need for Labour to undertake a comprehensive overhaul.
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@pakman said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew Reported that Blair has given interesting interview to New Statesman about the need for Labour to undertake a comprehensive overhaul.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
But I don't see the point in standing in the way of the will of the people.
There is the small issue of the 2014 referendum. Not saying the result would go the same way now, but you can't have a case of where there is constant agitation for a revote until the SNP get the 'right' result.
While somewhat unorthodox, the best solution IMO would be for Boris to say - we will legislate for the referendum now, but fair is fair the last one supposed to be once in a generation so we will set the date for 2028, fifteen years on from the previous one which honours the result of the past one, but gives Scotland another crack.
Setting a vote that far ahead is unheard of - but it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the SNP IMO and would reframe the argument in the unions favour.
Added bonus Boris will be gone when the time comes.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
But I don't see the point in standing in the way of the will of the people.
There is the small issue of the 2014 referendum. Not saying the result would go the same way now, but you can't have a case of where there is constant agitation for a revote until the SNP get the 'right' result.
While somewhat unorthodox, the best solution IMO would be for Boris to say - we will legislate for the referendum now, but fair is fair the last one supposed to be once in a generation so we will set the date for 2028, fifteen years on from the previous one which honours the result of the past one, but gives Scotland another crack.
Setting a vote that far ahead is unheard of - but it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the SNP IMO and would reframe the argument in the unions favour.
Added bonus Boris will be gone when the time comes.
Although you are correct, as I said in my post, there has been a significant shit, exiting the EU, since the last vote. Given Scotland voted 62% to remain, then the grounds are there.
Things are about to get very ugly up those ways though. There were protests todays in Glasgow when the Border Force came to detain two illegal immigrants. A bunch of hard lefty's blocked the streets, refused the van to move and the fucking police relented and released the illegal immigrants back into the community.
There is no way this is the end of this. Absolutely no way. Sturgeon's comments are basically saying that Scotland is free for all for anybody to come to regardless of procedure.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
Although you are correct, as I said in my post, there has been a significant shit, exiting the EU, since the last vote. Given Scotland voted 62% to remain, then the grounds are there.
This event must have slipped under my radar, a bit of media coverage of this would have been nice.
I guess I don't see the direct link between leaving the EU and an automatic trigger for a referendum less than 10 years after the first.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
But I don't see the point in standing in the way of the will of the people.
There is the small issue of the 2014 referendum. Not saying the result would go the same way now, but you can't have a case of where there is constant agitation for a revote until the SNP get the 'right' result.
While somewhat unorthodox, the best solution IMO would be for Boris to say - we will legislate for the referendum now, but fair is fair the last one supposed to be once in a generation so we will set the date for 2028, fifteen years on from the previous one which honours the result of the past one, but gives Scotland another crack.
Setting a vote that far ahead is unheard of - but it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the SNP IMO and would reframe the argument in the unions favour.
Added bonus Boris will be gone when the time comes.
Although you are correct, as I said in my post, there has been a significant shit, exiting the EU, since the last vote. Given Scotland voted 62% to remain, then the grounds are there.
Things are about to get very ugly up those ways though. There were protests todays in Glasgow when the Border Force came to detain two illegal immigrants. A bunch of hard lefty's blocked the streets, refused the van to move and the fucking police relented and released the illegal immigrants back into the community.
There is no way this is the end of this. Absolutely no way. Sturgeon's comments are basically saying that Scotland is free for all for anybody to come to regardless of procedure.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
But I don't see the point in standing in the way of the will of the people.
There is the small issue of the 2014 referendum. Not saying the result would go the same way now, but you can't have a case of where there is constant agitation for a revote until the SNP get the 'right' result.
While somewhat unorthodox, the best solution IMO would be for Boris to say - we will legislate for the referendum now, but fair is fair the last one supposed to be once in a generation so we will set the date for 2028, fifteen years on from the previous one which honours the result of the past one, but gives Scotland another crack.
Setting a vote that far ahead is unheard of - but it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the SNP IMO and would reframe the argument in the unions favour.
Added bonus Boris will be gone when the time comes.
Although you are correct, as I said in my post, there has been a significant shit, exiting the EU, since the last vote. Given Scotland voted 62% to remain, then the grounds are there.
Things are about to get very ugly up those ways though. There were protests todays in Glasgow when the Border Force came to detain two illegal immigrants. A bunch of hard lefty's blocked the streets, refused the van to move and the fucking police relented and released the illegal immigrants back into the community.
There is no way this is the end of this. Absolutely no way. Sturgeon's comments are basically saying that Scotland is free for all for anybody to come to regardless of procedure.
The EU thing I feel is simply a peg to hang the SNP coat on. They were agitating for another referendum more or less straight after they lost last time, though I do agree that it is an issue. The problem vis-a-vis Scottish independence is that Glasgow has a large percentage of the voting population and voted out, most of the rest of Scotland, Dundee I think excepted, voted to remain. My nephew who worked up that way until recently and has loads of Scots mates rsays that the base feeling is that most areas of Scotland would rather be run by Westminster than by those bloody Weegies.
The immigrant thing, was that the same one that has seen the deputy leader of Unite be suspended from the Labour party over his tweet wanting to deport Pritti Patel?
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@catogrande said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
But I don't see the point in standing in the way of the will of the people.
There is the small issue of the 2014 referendum. Not saying the result would go the same way now, but you can't have a case of where there is constant agitation for a revote until the SNP get the 'right' result.
While somewhat unorthodox, the best solution IMO would be for Boris to say - we will legislate for the referendum now, but fair is fair the last one supposed to be once in a generation so we will set the date for 2028, fifteen years on from the previous one which honours the result of the past one, but gives Scotland another crack.
Setting a vote that far ahead is unheard of - but it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the SNP IMO and would reframe the argument in the unions favour.
Added bonus Boris will be gone when the time comes.
Although you are correct, as I said in my post, there has been a significant shit, exiting the EU, since the last vote. Given Scotland voted 62% to remain, then the grounds are there.
Things are about to get very ugly up those ways though. There were protests todays in Glasgow when the Border Force came to detain two illegal immigrants. A bunch of hard lefty's blocked the streets, refused the van to move and the fucking police relented and released the illegal immigrants back into the community.
There is no way this is the end of this. Absolutely no way. Sturgeon's comments are basically saying that Scotland is free for all for anybody to come to regardless of procedure.
The EU thing I feel is simply a peg to hang the SNP coat on. They were agitating for another referendum more or less straight after they lost last time, though I do agree that it is an issue. The problem vis-a-vis Scottish independence is that Glasgow has a large percentage of the voting population and voted out, most of the rest of Scotland, Dundee I think excepted, voted to remain. My nephew who worked up that way until recently and has loads of Scots mates rsays that the base feeling is that most areas of Scotland would rather be run by Westminster than by those bloody Weegies.
The immigrant thing, was that the same one that has seen the deputy leader of Unite be suspended from the Labour party over his tweet wanting to deport Pritti Patel?
Right. Yeah, thats the same quote. It seems that non-white people are now above being called deported in any way shape or form.
I only know Jocks down here, who are all well-educated and do city or entrepreneurial jobs. Absolutely none of them want Scotland independence.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
Although you are correct, as I said in my post, there has been a significant shit, exiting the EU, since the last vote. Given Scotland voted 62% to remain, then the grounds are there.
This event must have slipped under my radar, a bit of media coverage of this would have been nice.
I guess I don't see the direct link between leaving the EU and an automatic trigger for a referendum less than 10 years after the first.
Not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not here. I'll assume not and point out that voting to leave an EU member state, is rather different than voting to leave a non-EU state with the intention to try and join the EU.
I agree that democratically, I'm not of the opinion Nicky really has a leg to stand on, but I do see her point.
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Much as though I have huge sympathy for Starmer, this is bloody funny.
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
Not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not here. I'll assume not and point out that voting to leave an EU member state, is rather different than voting to leave a non-EU state with the intention to try and join the EU.
I agree that democratically, I'm not of the opinion Nicky really has a leg to stand on, but I do see her point.
It doesn't stand up to even the most basic analysis. Is the argument that leaving the EU is such a big change that it changes everything? If so would she accept calls for a second referendum had Independence won, but unionists wanted conformation Scotland did not want to be part of the union now free from the UK? Pigs may fly.
Also there is a small problem that most opinion polling shows 'remain' ahead, or the slightest of leads for independence. If they held a a second referendum this year and it loses again - then what? Simple they would wait for something else until the Queen dies and then use that as another rhetorical trigger.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
Not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not here. I'll assume not and point out that voting to leave an EU member state, is rather different than voting to leave a non-EU state with the intention to try and join the EU.
I agree that democratically, I'm not of the opinion Nicky really has a leg to stand on, but I do see her point.
It doesn't stand up to even the most basic analysis. Is the argument that leaving the EU is such a big change that it changes everything? If so would she accept calls for a second referendum had Independence won, but unionists wanted conformation Scotland did not want to be part of the union now free from the UK? Pigs may fly.
Also there is a small problem that most opinion polling shows 'remain' ahead, or the slightest of leads for independence. If they held a a second referendum this year and it loses again - then what? Simple they would wait for something else until the Queen dies and then use that as another rhetorical trigger.
Look, we are going to have to agree to agree.
Just because you disagree with something, it doesn't mean that you can't acknowledge their point!
British Politics