Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East
-
@gt12 and how many moderate Jews and Arab Israeli's get fucked over while the Haredi continue to push. I've got a bunch of Israeli and Arab Israeli mates (best mate at Uni married a Israeli Jew, she also converted but that's another story) and they are continually frustrated at the groups who agitate so hard (Haredi + some others) but don't have to serve in the military due to religious reasons. So others get to carry the can for what another group is initiating. Many, many layers of suckiness to this
-
@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@gt12 and how many moderate Jews and Arab Israeli's get fucked over while the Haredi continue to push. I've got a bunch of Israeli and Arab Israeli mates (best mate at Uni married a Israeli Jew, she also converted but that's another story) and they are continually frustrated at the groups who agitate so hard (Haredi + some others) but don't have to serve in the military due to religious reasons. So others get to carry the can for what another group is initiating. Many, many layers of suckiness to this
I am sure there are groups on both sides who want to keep on fighting each other forever, while a large proportion are stuck in the middle just wanting to get on with living
-
@canefan it does have some upsides though - the people I hung out with at the wedding and stuff knew how to PARTY. I reckon a good dose of hedonism is just what is needed when living in an environment like that!
I just don't see there being any internal political will to reverse some of the incursions into the East or other areas they are technically occupying illegally. I'm not sure if Israeli control of all of Jerusalem would trigger a war or something, but if they keep pushing something has to give at some point. Terrifying stuff.
-
@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan it does have some upsides though - the people I hung out with at the wedding and stuff knew how to PARTY. I reckon a good dose of hedonism is just what is needed when living in an environment like that!
I just don't see there being any internal political will to reverse some of the incursions into the East or other areas they are technically occupying illegally. I'm not sure if Israeli control of all of Jerusalem would trigger a war or something, but if they keep pushing something has to give at some point. Terrifying stuff.
Who would fight against Israel outside of the Palestinians?
The Palestinians would be obliterated wouldn't they? -
@Frank if Israel has effectively destroyed Palestine, or any hope of it being a functional country/entity, then some of those anti-Israel countries might consider it moot as there isn't anything to lose. Not sure if that means open season on Israel, or if they'd give up as there was no internal element to support. So does Palestine existing in some form actually keep Israel safer in a perverse way? the country I mean, I suspect however things pan out life will always be riskier in that part of the world
-
@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Frank if Israel has effectively destroyed Palestine, or any hope of it being a functional country/entity, then some of those anti-Israel countries might consider it moot as there isn't anything to lose. Not sure if that means open season on Israel, or if they'd give up as there was no internal element to support. So does Palestine existing in some form actually keep Israel safer in a perverse way? the country I mean, I suspect however things pan out life will always be riskier in that part of the world
As long as the world depends on oil? Absolutely
-
@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan it does have some upsides though - the people I hung out with at the wedding and stuff knew how to PARTY. I reckon a good dose of hedonism is just what is needed when living in an environment like that!
I just don't see there being any internal political will to reverse some of the incursions into the East or other areas they are technically occupying illegally. I'm not sure if Israeli control of all of Jerusalem would trigger a war or something, but if they keep pushing something has to give at some point. Terrifying stuff.
I spent a few weekends spead over 3 or 4 work trips partying in Tel Aviv back in 2005-7. Freaking awesome city to party in
-
There is no greater evil in the world than man's interpretation of religion
-
@frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
My question was more along the lines of whether it is true Trump being so pro-Israel deterred Palestine from trying anything?
I can't why. Most of not all US Presidents are pro-Israel
-
As long as Palestinians are used as a vehicle for Arab nations to kick Israel, as long as Israel's existence is threatened, and as long as Palestinians vote for Hamas etc., then this is the end result.
-
@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Frank if Israel has effectively destroyed Palestine, or any hope of it being a functional country/entity, then some of those anti-Israel countries might consider it moot as there isn't anything to lose. Not sure if that means open season on Israel, or if they'd give up as there was no internal element to support. So does Palestine existing in some form actually keep Israel safer in a perverse way? the country I mean, I suspect however things pan out life will always be riskier in that part of the world
The list of anti-Israel countries is shrinking all the time and the silence from some recently-friendly Arab states is deafening, especially silence about attacks on worshippers in the 3rd holiest site in Islam during the holiest month in the Islamic calendar
-
@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
As long as Palestinians are used as a vehicle for Arab nations to kick Israel, as long as Israel's existence is threatened, and as long as Palestinians vote for Hamas etc., then this is the end result.
This current situation has little to do with Arab nations trying to kick Israel - there are only a small handful of Arab nations who aren't now on good terms with Israel.
-
Given TSF is the font of all knowledge can anyone give a one paragraph explanation of the origins of current trouble?
I appreciate the complications around the formation of the Jewish state post WWII, and religious conflict dating back 2,000 years complicate matters somewhat, but any comments I've seen tend to sit heavily on one side or the other, each accusing the other.
I have a suspicion, like most things, fault may lie on both sides.
Depending on which commentator I've read the removal of protestors from the mosque was either a heinous attack by an oppressive state, or the justified and inevitable result of deliberate provocation.
What were they protesting?
Did they have a right to?
Is their cause justified?
Was it a deliberate attempt to provoke conflict?Appreciate the thoughts of those more informed than me.
-
@frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@kirwan said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@booboo religion.
You’re welcome.
Religion itself or deliberate distortion of religion to justify actions?
Religion itself seems to generally lend itself to extremes.
-
@frank said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@kirwan said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@booboo religion.
You’re welcome.
Religion itself or deliberate distortion of religion to justify actions?
Religion is a useful recruiting tool as well
-
The Hill kind of touched on it today in their video, explaining that the Israeli right wing aligned itself with the GOP and therefore now Israeli politics is aligned with US politics, meaning that the 100% support for Israel is not starting to get diluted across party lines, and which means that as the US gets more liberal over time the support for Israeli policies will likely change to a more negative stance: