Coronavirus - UK
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
Of course, being in NZ I am biased, and we have been far from perfect, but full blown lockdown was painful. But at least it was relatively short by global standards at 6 weeks. Get things cleaned up and hit outbreaks hard when they come. Economically in NZ, apart from tourism mainly, the economy has been very strong in 2020
Really? Has NZ done ok? I don't remember reading a single thing about that anywhere.
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@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Neither are you under any obligation to listen to or adhere to someone who thinks you are stupid and selfish. I think you're stupid. What happens next?
There's a lot of this on the fern (bogan names etc) and I'm always bemused at how serious people take their judgements of others. So much self importance. Characteristics of a safety first society i guess🙂
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Neither are you under any obligation to listen to or adhere to someone who thinks you are stupid and selfish. I think you're stupid. What happens next?
There's a lot of this on the fern (bogan names etc) and I'm always bemused at how serious people take their judgements of others. So much self importance. Characteristics of a safety first society i guess🙂
Did irony ever cross your mind about feeling superior when writing the above?
People that make selfish and stupid decisions aren't always stupid and selfish. There's quite a difference there which you may wish to ponder if you'd like to take this debate forwards.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Not wanting to get into a you're right and I'm wrong debate here.
I take your point about pejoratives, but seems to me that after all the efforts made to dispel concerns, it's a pretty reasonable argument to make that people knowingly and deliberately risking their lives and others are stupid and selfish and should be called out for it.
Particularly when the virus they are refusing to get vaccinated against has killed north of 120k people.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage nah, you win. This isn't a debate about making a situation better, it's a debate that you're right and your wishes override another person's decision about what to put into their own body.
Nobody wins when people don't get vaccinated, get sick and then infect others.
I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. I'm simply saying people are making selfish, and on the back of all the research/commentary about the safety of vaccines, and stupid decisions.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Not wanting to get into a you're right and I'm wrong debate here.
I take your point about pejoratives, but seems to me that after all the efforts made to dispel concerns, it's a pretty reasonable argument to make that people knowingly and deliberately risking their lives and others are stupid and selfish and should be called out for it.
Particularly when the virus they are refusing to get vaccinated against has killed north of 120k people.
Maybe their pertinent statistic is 4.3 million who have recovered. Maybe they aren't in the at risk group for age and physical health. I don't agree that they think they are risking their lives at all.
Particularly when the virus they are refusing to get vaccinated for has been successfully countered by 99% of natural immune systems.
I know mate. You don't see a drastic risk in motorcycling and I don't see a drastic risk in covid. That's all the difference is.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
Nobody wins when people don't get vaccinated, get sick and then infect others.
The only thing I think when I see that is - aren't others getting vaccinated anyway and won't get sick? If they're infecting others, aren't those just others that didn't get vaccinated also? Or am I being dim as usual.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
You don't see a drastic risk in motorcycling and I don't see a drastic risk in covid. That's all the difference is.
You didn't think of ANY of the ways where this comparison would be laughed at?
And @Victor-Meldrew & @MajorRage - come on guys, you see there's no point in debating this. You're using logic vs a religion. When has that ever worked?
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@bones said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
Nobody wins when people don't get vaccinated, get sick and then infect others.
The only thing I think when I see that is - aren't others getting vaccinated anyway and won't get sick? If they're infecting others, aren't those just others that didn't get vaccinated also? Or am I being dim as usual.
Correct. And there goes the NHS getting overwhelmed again.
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@kruse said in Coronavirus - UK:
You didn't think of ANY of the ways where this comparison would be laughed at?
I'm offering a conciliatory gesture to a ferner i respect. We (me and vic) can go round and round for ever but at the end we simply disagree on what constitutes "life threatening" in our two different lives.
I'd much prefer to do that than toss out snide remarks from the sideline
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@majorrage genuinely rage, and not related to our views on the virus lethality.
After a year of incredible prioritisation of the NHS, when is the time you ask "is this nhs actually any good?". It seems awfully not up to the task of delivering health and improving lives of the people because for the last year it's been the people delivering health and improving life of the NHS.After a year, the much vaunted NHS has looked pretty fragile at every juncture.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
Maybe their pertinent statistic is 4.3 million who have recovered.
And they don't are about the 120k+ who have died?
Maybe they aren't in the at risk group for age and physical health. I don't agree that they think they are risking their lives at all.
They're not risking their own lives - but they are risking the lives of others.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage genuinely rage, and not related to our views on the virus lethality.
Honestly, UK & Aus based TSF'ers are naturally going to have a huge difference in their views on this compared to European based.
After a year of incredible prioritisation of the NHS, when is the time you ask "is this nhs actually any good?". It seems awfully not up to the task of delivering health and improving lives for the people because for the last year it's been the people delivering health and improving life for the NHS.
After a year, the much vaunted NHS has looked pretty fragile.
Depends on who you ask and what their politics are.
I think as completely free healthcare goes, it's pretty damn good. It's far from perfect, and there are loads of ways it could be improved. But it is a government run organisation, which means it's political as all hell, has a huge excess of non-line staff & is extremely reliant on immigrants to do the lesser paid jobs (which sadly includes some front line staff). It's also put on such a pedestal by many commentators that it's considered unpatriotic to criticise it.
If you compare the results of the NHS in dealing with pandemic to most of our European neighbours, it falls in line. It's certainly fragile, and the waiting lists now for operations are excessively long. I think the way the NHS really works is that if you have small issues which require medication, or the worst possible things (Cancer etc), then it's very good. But middle of the road healthcare (sports injuries, dodgy knees etc) then it's quite poor.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@kruse ok, do I insist my 18 month old nephew gets vaccinated? Is that logic or religion?
The science does not indicate vaccination for an 18 month old. I don't see what point you are trying to make
Why not?
I'm making the point that "the science" ( amazing that we think there is only one science) is not as clear cut as people are reducing it too. There are many questions, but you're the first I've encountered with answers
What about his 8 year old brother? What is the vaccine cut off and why is it that age?
What about pregnant women?
Genuine questions if you know the answers👍
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@kruse ok, do I insist my 18 month old nephew gets vaccinated? Is that logic or religion?
The science does not indicate vaccination for an 18 month old. I don't see what point you are trying to make
Why not?
I'm making the point that "the science" ( amazing that we think there is only one science) is not as clear cut as people are reducing it too. There are many questions, but you're the first I've encountered with answers
What about his 8 year old brother? What is the vaccine cut off and why is it that age?
What about pregnant women?
Genuine questions if you know the answers👍
The science does not indicate vaccination for children period. In NZ vaccination for pregnant women is not contraindicated. Apparently vaccination for children ad young as 12 is fine, in line with many vaccinations. But in NZ its 16 and over. Probably supply related and relative risk