Coronavirus - Australia
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
The older folk will be vaccinated.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
The older folk will be vaccinated.
Yeah, but vaccination doesn't totally stop transmission & severe illness / death, and it's still early days in terms of figuring out how much it will help - how long do benefits last, how much will they be reduced by new variants etc.
This is going to be here long term, it's going to be an ongoing balancing act of health outcomes vs measures we can take. Could be that vaccinating kids is a key part of reducing spread, and means we don't have to have other restrictions in place. Or maybe it won't, I don't know.
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
Yeh it's about helping (stop) community spread vs ethics of vaccinating 12-15 age group with (or without) parental consent. I'm vaccinated, as are all my family.
I now suspect the JCVI have given a decision based on a their limited terms of reference (risk to the individual 12-15 year olds from Covid) and have bumped it upwards so the epidemiology/modelling (risk of infectious spread, another group) and wider government healthcare policy and medical ethics can be assessed.
That's my take, the people looking at this are not dummies.
It's a complex issue, unless you simply avoid the serious ethical discussions ... which I suspect is what is happening globally ... in which case it's bl**dy simple.
If I had a 12-year old who is strongly anti vax, what the h*ll would I do as a parent????????
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Here's a great example of the kind of anti-Vic/Andrews pro-NSW/Berejiklian BS that we have to put up with from the Murdoch rags. This is toxic stuff, it's bad for Australia.
The solution is to do what the vast majority of Australians do and that's not get your news from Murdoch print.
That's a solution I fully endorse, but I suspect that when you factor in the Murdoch print, TV and digital news then a majority probably do get it there
Channel 9, The Age, SMH, Canberra Times, Channel 10, Guardian, ABC/Channel 2, SBS, AFR, Channel 7/Seven West - there’s plenty of Andrews cheerleaders and Berejiklian haters in those outlets.
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@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Here's a great example of the kind of anti-Vic/Andrews pro-NSW/Berejiklian BS that we have to put up with from the Murdoch rags. This is toxic stuff, it's bad for Australia.
The solution is to do what the vast majority of Australians do and that's not get your news from Murdoch print.
That's a solution I fully endorse, but I suspect that when you factor in the Murdoch print, TV and digital news then a majority probably do get it there
Channel 9, The Age, SMH, Canberra Times, Channel 10, Guardian, ABC/Channel 2, SBS, AFR, Channel 7/Seven West - there’s plenty of Andrews cheerleaders and Berejiklian haters in those outlets.
Uhh... right
Sorry, that's not constructive. But if you think those are pro-Andrews / anti-GB then I'll have some of whatever you're smoking
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Here's a great example of the kind of anti-Vic/Andrews pro-NSW/Berejiklian BS that we have to put up with from the Murdoch rags. This is toxic stuff, it's bad for Australia.
The solution is to do what the vast majority of Australians do and that's not get your news from Murdoch print.
That's a solution I fully endorse, but I suspect that when you factor in the Murdoch print, TV and digital news then a majority probably do get it there
Channel 9, The Age, SMH, Canberra Times, Channel 10, Guardian, ABC/Channel 2, SBS, AFR, Channel 7/Seven West - there’s plenty of Andrews cheerleaders and Berejiklian haters in those outlets.
Uhh... right
Sorry, that's not constructive. But if you think those are pro-Andrews / anti-GB then I'll have some of whatever you're smoking
I don’t smoke so can’t help you there, but you appear to have jumped on the Rudd / Turnbull bandwagon and their “let’s blame Murdoch media” when every media outlet have a slanted view.
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@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@act-crusader said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Here's a great example of the kind of anti-Vic/Andrews pro-NSW/Berejiklian BS that we have to put up with from the Murdoch rags. This is toxic stuff, it's bad for Australia.
The solution is to do what the vast majority of Australians do and that's not get your news from Murdoch print.
That's a solution I fully endorse, but I suspect that when you factor in the Murdoch print, TV and digital news then a majority probably do get it there
Channel 9, The Age, SMH, Canberra Times, Channel 10, Guardian, ABC/Channel 2, SBS, AFR, Channel 7/Seven West - there’s plenty of Andrews cheerleaders and Berejiklian haters in those outlets.
Uhh... right
Sorry, that's not constructive. But if you think those are pro-Andrews / anti-GB then I'll have some of whatever you're smoking
I don’t smoke so can’t help you there, but you appear to have jumped on the Rudd / Turnbull bandwagon and their “let’s blame Murdoch media” when every media outlet have a slanted view.
Hardly, the observation of the effects of the Murdoch press predate those two hypocritical shitlarks by a very long time.
Saying all outlets are biased is a cop-out. You'll find the odd article critical of Gladys in those outlets you mentioned (and just as many of Andrews in most of them), but there's nothing remotely close to the Murdoch media
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
The older folk will be vaccinated.
Yeah, but vaccination doesn't totally stop transmission & severe illness / death, and it's still early days in terms of figuring out how much it will help - how long do benefits last, how much will they be reduced by new variants etc.
So it makes more sense to vaccinate the people who suffer severe outcomes. Once they're taken care of, then you can worry about the youngest cohort, who don't suffer the severe outcomes.
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But show me anything from Nine / ABC / Guardian equivalent to this pair and I will reconsider
For the last time: Almost no one reads the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph. They overwhelmingly get their news from social media and TV.
From Canberra Uni submission to the Media diversity in Australia Senate Committee:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But show me anything from Nine / ABC / Guardian equivalent to this pair and I will reconsider
For the last time: Almost no one reads the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph. They overwhelmingly get their news from social media and TV.
From Canberra Uni submission to the Media diversity in Australia Senate Committee:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Well I guess that as long as he doesn't have similar TV stations or websites then it's all good
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
The older folk will be vaccinated.
Yeah, but vaccination doesn't totally stop transmission & severe illness / death, and it's still early days in terms of figuring out how much it will help - how long do benefits last, how much will they be reduced by new variants etc.
So it makes more sense to vaccinate the people who suffer severe outcomes. Once they're taken care of, then you can worry about the youngest cohort, who don't suffer the severe outcomes.
Yeah agree, I was thinking about whether they should be vaccinated at all, but yeah they're not priority
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But show me anything from Nine / ABC / Guardian equivalent to this pair and I will reconsider
For the last time: Almost no one reads the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph. They overwhelmingly get their news from social media and TV.
From Canberra Uni submission to the Media diversity in Australia Senate Committee:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Well I guess that as long as he doesn't have similar TV stations or websites then it's all good
Statistically speaking people are trending towards mobile devices and social media for their news .
Even among TV (and radio) channels, even SBS gets more viewers than Skynews. Online news even BBC and the Guardian get more readers than the Daily Telegraph. source - https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2020-06/apo-nid305057_0.pdf
So with this in mind I don't know why people get wrapped around the axle about what the Daily Telegraph or Sun Herald say. Almost no one gets their news from it and from those that do, they're statistically more likely to be affirming their views anyway. That is to say they're pandering to their readership, as slim as it is.
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does it break down how much of that social media and online news is from the pages of the newspapers, getting the same articles just via social media
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
does it break down how much of that social media news is from the pages of the newspapers, getting the same articles just via social media
Yas thinking the same as that's how I follow things. Lots of social media e.g. Twitter is links to online news so how is that classified?
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@nta said in Coronavirus - Australia:
My brother is in the army. Was in Cairns and got to go home early.
Entire Jetstar flight to himself
Sobs
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Also worth pointing out since Murdoch took control of the Courrier Mail Labor has returned more seats than the Coalition in 12 of the 13 state elections since then.
So if we are being empirical about this and contrasting with results prior to 1989 and other states where Murdoch has competition from the 9 papers we can only assume that Murdoch has a heavy left wing bias.
Thoughts @GibbonRib ?
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@rotated said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Also worth pointing out since Murdoch took control of the Courrier Mail Labor has returned more seats than the Coalition in 12 of the 13 state elections since then.
So if we are being empirical about this and contrasting with results prior to 1989 and other states where Murdoch has competition from the 9 papers we can only assume that Murdoch has a heavy left wing bias.
Thoughts @GibbonRib ?
or we could assume that not many swinging voters take that paper seriously...
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@rotated said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Also worth pointing out since Murdoch took control of the Courrier Mail Labor has returned more seats than the Coalition in 12 of the 13 state elections since then.
So if we are being empirical about this and contrasting with results prior to 1989 and other states where Murdoch has competition from the 9 papers we can only assume that Murdoch has a heavy left wing bias.
Thoughts @GibbonRib ?
Counter-trivia: the last person to win a UK election who wasn't the Murdoch press' preferred candidate was Harold Wilson in 1974
How influential Murdoch is is really hard to judge. Hopefully Antipodean is right and the answer is not much at all. But given how fragmented the media is these days it's difficult to tell. Not so many people buy newspapers, but how many get their "news" through 3 minute clips of Rita Pahani or Andrew Bolt on Youtube?
But I wasn't really arguing that it controls everything, just that they're a toxic, divisive influence on Australia, and in particular Victoria. We've had a rough 18 months, and it's been made a lot harder by Murdoch's influence (and the politicians who've been in lockstep with negging us). I have a couple of friends who have clearly been wallowing in this stuff and are now at the point that I'm genuinely worried about their mental health.
Now maybe Newcorp isn't to blame and they would have self-radicalised anyway, more symptom than cause. But I still hate it.