Coronavirus - Australia
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
The older folk will be vaccinated.
Yeah, but vaccination doesn't totally stop transmission & severe illness / death, and it's still early days in terms of figuring out how much it will help - how long do benefits last, how much will they be reduced by new variants etc.
So it makes more sense to vaccinate the people who suffer severe outcomes. Once they're taken care of, then you can worry about the youngest cohort, who don't suffer the severe outcomes.
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But show me anything from Nine / ABC / Guardian equivalent to this pair and I will reconsider
For the last time: Almost no one reads the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph. They overwhelmingly get their news from social media and TV.
From Canberra Uni submission to the Media diversity in Australia Senate Committee:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But show me anything from Nine / ABC / Guardian equivalent to this pair and I will reconsider
For the last time: Almost no one reads the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph. They overwhelmingly get their news from social media and TV.
From Canberra Uni submission to the Media diversity in Australia Senate Committee:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Well I guess that as long as he doesn't have similar TV stations or websites then it's all good
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@landp said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Is Australia planning to vaccinate 12-15 year olds?
There is some talk of it, but looking at the data you'd have to question why. The only person <20 recorded as a statistic was a 15 year old who unfortunately died from pneumococcal meningitis with covid. Meanwhile the other 12,100 confirmed cases...
I could understand if there was a variant that that age group was more susceptible to severe outcomes, but while we're trying to get 80% of the +16 age group vaccinated, you'd have to ask why.
True, but how many of the older folk who did have bad outcomes caught it via kids' schools etc? If it reduces the spread it could be helpful. It's a complex question
The older folk will be vaccinated.
Yeah, but vaccination doesn't totally stop transmission & severe illness / death, and it's still early days in terms of figuring out how much it will help - how long do benefits last, how much will they be reduced by new variants etc.
So it makes more sense to vaccinate the people who suffer severe outcomes. Once they're taken care of, then you can worry about the youngest cohort, who don't suffer the severe outcomes.
Yeah agree, I was thinking about whether they should be vaccinated at all, but yeah they're not priority
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@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@gibbonrib said in Coronavirus - Australia:
But show me anything from Nine / ABC / Guardian equivalent to this pair and I will reconsider
For the last time: Almost no one reads the Herald Sun or Daily Telegraph. They overwhelmingly get their news from social media and TV.
From Canberra Uni submission to the Media diversity in Australia Senate Committee:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Well I guess that as long as he doesn't have similar TV stations or websites then it's all good
Statistically speaking people are trending towards mobile devices and social media for their news .
Even among TV (and radio) channels, even SBS gets more viewers than Skynews. Online news even BBC and the Guardian get more readers than the Daily Telegraph. source - https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2020-06/apo-nid305057_0.pdf
So with this in mind I don't know why people get wrapped around the axle about what the Daily Telegraph or Sun Herald say. Almost no one gets their news from it and from those that do, they're statistically more likely to be affirming their views anyway. That is to say they're pandering to their readership, as slim as it is.
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does it break down how much of that social media and online news is from the pages of the newspapers, getting the same articles just via social media
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
does it break down how much of that social media news is from the pages of the newspapers, getting the same articles just via social media
Yas thinking the same as that's how I follow things. Lots of social media e.g. Twitter is links to online news so how is that classified?
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@nta said in Coronavirus - Australia:
My brother is in the army. Was in Cairns and got to go home early.
Entire Jetstar flight to himself
Sobs
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Also worth pointing out since Murdoch took control of the Courrier Mail Labor has returned more seats than the Coalition in 12 of the 13 state elections since then.
So if we are being empirical about this and contrasting with results prior to 1989 and other states where Murdoch has competition from the 9 papers we can only assume that Murdoch has a heavy left wing bias.
Thoughts @GibbonRib ?
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@rotated said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Also worth pointing out since Murdoch took control of the Courrier Mail Labor has returned more seats than the Coalition in 12 of the 13 state elections since then.
So if we are being empirical about this and contrasting with results prior to 1989 and other states where Murdoch has competition from the 9 papers we can only assume that Murdoch has a heavy left wing bias.
Thoughts @GibbonRib ?
or we could assume that not many swinging voters take that paper seriously...
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@rotated said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
In the modern era Murdoch's ability to sway the public through print media is a trope.
Also worth pointing out since Murdoch took control of the Courrier Mail Labor has returned more seats than the Coalition in 12 of the 13 state elections since then.
So if we are being empirical about this and contrasting with results prior to 1989 and other states where Murdoch has competition from the 9 papers we can only assume that Murdoch has a heavy left wing bias.
Thoughts @GibbonRib ?
Counter-trivia: the last person to win a UK election who wasn't the Murdoch press' preferred candidate was Harold Wilson in 1974
How influential Murdoch is is really hard to judge. Hopefully Antipodean is right and the answer is not much at all. But given how fragmented the media is these days it's difficult to tell. Not so many people buy newspapers, but how many get their "news" through 3 minute clips of Rita Pahani or Andrew Bolt on Youtube?
But I wasn't really arguing that it controls everything, just that they're a toxic, divisive influence on Australia, and in particular Victoria. We've had a rough 18 months, and it's been made a lot harder by Murdoch's influence (and the politicians who've been in lockstep with negging us). I have a couple of friends who have clearly been wallowing in this stuff and are now at the point that I'm genuinely worried about their mental health.
Now maybe Newcorp isn't to blame and they would have self-radicalised anyway, more symptom than cause. But I still hate it.
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I liked this article in today's SMH. It sums up many of my thoughts on how we move forward.
**We need to talk about death so we can live with COVID-19** It is not possible to eradicate COVID-19 from the globe, nor is it possible to keep it out of Australia. We need to start talking about the likely outcomes of COVID-19 circulating in the community. We need to start talking about accepting death as an outcome of disease. As a doctor, I accept death as an outcome every day. I discuss it with patients on a one-on-one basis. I discuss it with their families when treatment is futile, or when I know a patient could have a disease to which they will succumb. Our politicians and health leaders need to start to speak this way to the whole population. About 1200 people died from influenza in 2017 and people were not especially worried. We did not shut down the economy, nor close schools, nor even institute any of the simple manoeuvres that would probably have prevented many of those deaths (wearing masks, hand washing, and social distancing). It is time our political leaders started to listen to balanced advice. There is no solution that will not entail deaths. It may be deaths from COVID-19, or deaths of young women who could not access breast cancer screening. Or patients with brain aneurysms that sustain a stroke, or die from the aneurysm rupturing. Or patients with colon cancer who could not access treatment when the disease could have been cured at a younger age. These are just some examples. I found it confusing to read in the news about three patients in their eighties who died living in a nursing home when on the same day, at a busy teaching hospital in Sydney, I looked after three patients who also died, from intracranial haemorrhage (bleeding in the brain), and these deaths did not reach the news. COVID-19 needs to be thought of as endemic, and not as a pandemic. It is very likely COVID-19 will lead to a significant increase in deaths – it is not the flu or a common cold. It might be there is a 10 per cent or even 20 per cent increase in the number of deaths per year. Of note, however, is that we had only 37 deaths from influenza last year and none this year, so the outcome may eventually be even. Are we prepared to accept a trade-off in death from different causes? It would be a significant tragedy if young people who have curable diseases such as cancer or even mental illness succumb to these in years to come because of lockdowns and COVID-19. Australia has been lucky because of our geographical isolation, but we have been educated to be afraid of death from COVID-19, and not accepting of the fact that patients will die from this disease. The average survival after one is admitted to a nursing home is less than 12 months, so it is not surprising people in their eighties who are living in a nursing home might die from COVID-19. It is sad for their families, but it is equally sad for the families of all the other patients from nursing homes who die each year. The only sensible approach is that when we reach suitable vaccination thresholds, we open up the economy and our society. I hope we can reach these vaccine thresholds but if we cannot, we still have to open up. People may choose to isolate themselves and that is reasonable, especially if that person chooses not to have a vaccine, but we cannot be held back by those who are unvaccinated. Those that are vaccine-hesitant should consider their vaccination will protect children who cannot be vaccinated now, the way the whooping cough vaccine does. Adults are not particularly at risk of whooping cough, but how many of us have had a booster when visiting someone with a new baby? Maximising vaccinations will also allow our excellent health system to continue to care for all patients, not just those who have COVID-19. In our society we do not talk about every death as a tragedy. Our politicians do not talk about the 25-year-old who died from a ruptured aneurysm two weeks ago under my care. I am not suggesting they should, but equally we must stop talking about every death from COVID-19. I call on our political and health leaders to start talking rationally about how we can survive with COVID-19 rather than trying to eliminate a disease which cannot be eliminated. Dr Rodney Allan is a senior neurosurgeon working in public and private hospitals in Sydney and the president of the Neurosurgical Society of Australasia.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian I'd double-upvote if I could
Ditto. Nice to have one's opinion backed up by people with expertise.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian I'd double-upvote if I could
Ditto. Nice to have one's opinion backed up by people with expertise.
Also by someone with no skin in the game, in fact almost "negative skin". Its one thing to have heads of business and tourism to cry for opening up, but its much more powerful when its someone in the medical world who would be actively impacted by any exponential increase in hospitalisations
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Australia has been lucky because of our geographical isolation, but we have been educated to be afraid of death from COVID-19, and not accepting of the fact that patients will die from this disease.
That part there applies to NZ too.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Australia has been lucky because of our geographical isolation, but we have been educated to be afraid of death from COVID-19, and not accepting of the fact that patients will die from this disease.
That part there applies to NZ too.
Which has served us well to date. But now there a a large proportion of the population who see walling ourselves off as the solution
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Australia has been lucky because of our geographical isolation, but we have been educated to be afraid of death from COVID-19, and not accepting of the fact that patients will die from this disease.
That part there applies to NZ too.
Which has served us well to date. But now there a a large proportion of the population who see walling ourselves off as the solution
Has NZ given any indication of a plan to open up when vax rates are high enough?