Coronavirus - Overall
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Just reading through from the week. Why the Ivermectin hate? From the data i've seen looks fairly effective if administered early.
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@muddyriver Lots of bad and fraudulent data. The whole story is a pretty sad tale of grifters, fraudsters, cranks, ignorance, and people who should know better producing false hope.
Developing antivirals is very difficult, and almost all candidates fail. Taking a random drug, that pops up in a crappy in vitro drug library screening assay when used at massive equivalent doses, and claiming it's a "miracle drug" that should be rushed into front line medical intervention is pretty dreadful behaviour from anyone, especially from physicians.
There are known mechanisms by which many types of drugs give false or unusable positive results in in vitro assays. In the case of ivermectin, it's probably because it's lipophilic and accumulates in cell membranes, which disrupts them and damages/kills the cells. That would give the impression that it is stopping virus replication, because it is killing the cells they replicate in. I may well be wrong about that, but there's been similar observations with a lot of other repurposed drug candidates for covid.
There's a lot of people who know fuck all about drug discovery and development who have been very noisy about pumping ivermectin, and they should've stuck to what they know.
Should it turn out to have some use, then that would be great. That is established through vigorous experimentation and clinical research, not from internet dick measuring and grifting.
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BTW, we have some physicians who post on here (I'm a engineer with some limited background in methods for drug discovery). They aren't claiming to be experts in virology or antiviral drug development, unlike some of the self-proclaimed "experts" on the internet.
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Just reading through from the week. Why the Ivermectin hate? From the data i've seen looks fairly effective if administered early.
What data? ... serious question. The most commonly quoted scientific analysis in favour of Ivermectin was a preprint that has pretty much been shown to be manipulated (being polite ... faked might be more accurate).
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As I don't listen to the Joe Rogan show anymore I'm unfamiliar how Ivermectin is used, can someone enlighten me? I actually have two tubes of the cream from a prescription for Rosacea (mostly unused as it didn't work for me, Rozex does the job), I wonder how much I can get for it on Gumtree (for those not in the know Gumtree is Oz's shit kinfd of version of Trademe)?
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@nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
As I don't listen to the Joe Rogan show anymore I'm unfamiliar how Ivermectin is used, can someone enlighten me? I actually have two tubes of the cream from a prescription for Rosacea (mostly unused as it didn't work for me, Rozex does the job), I wonder how much I can get for it on Gumtree (for those not in the know Gumtree is Oz's shit kinfd of version of Trademe)?
If cream, try spreading it on bread and butter ...? The alternative is more "intrusive" but works better.
(for Chr_st sake don't take me sh_tposting seriously please! )
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I cant find the one i read previously, but https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8209939/
That's a positive one on the front page of google. There is also less positive ones on the front page so yea
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@muddyriver That study includes the fraudulent Egyptian study (Elgazzar) that heavily influenced early meta-analysis reports.
That study was probably just made up. My guess is that someone took out options on Ivermectin producers, then posted it to a preprint server (it never went through the peer review process).
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@muddyriver Tim and I are on the same page.
To be fair, some serious Ivermectin trials are being run, like this PRINCIPLE one in the UK calling for 5000 volunteers ... (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial)
Looks like UK PRINCIPLE are also trialling Favipiravir, an antiviral drug (I have no background on it - yet to read up).
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@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mikethesnow had a fever for a day and it was not the out of control type. 100 to 100.5. How was yours? Ice baths?
No
Best sleep of my life - 8 to 9 hrs undisturbed- but each time I woke it felt as if I’d pissed the bed
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mikethesnow had a fever for a day and it was not the out of control type. 100 to 100.5. How was yours? Ice baths?
No
Best sleep of my life - 8 to 9 hrs undisturbed- but each time I woke it felt as if I’d pissed the bed
That’s funny. You’re right. I slept like a baby for a couple of days as well. Who needs time off to rest when you have Covid.
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mikethesnow had a fever for a day and it was not the out of control type. 100 to 100.5. How was yours? Ice baths?
No
Best sleep of my life - 8 to 9 hrs undisturbed- but each time I woke it felt as if I’d pissed the bed
All in all quite satisfying then.
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@mikethesnow had a fever for a day and it was not the out of control type. 100 to 100.5. How was yours? Ice baths?
No
Best sleep of my life - 8 to 9 hrs undisturbed- but each time I woke it felt as if I’d pissed the bed
As opposed to the other nights when you actually had pissed the bed.
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I don’t get the freakout. I’ve been vaccinated twice. If the vaccine actually works, then I don’t give a ratsass what anybody else does. if a foxy unvaccinated young nubile wanted to get it on with me, I wouldn’t think twice. Sorry.
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@kid-chocolate I thought it was an amusing rant. Sorry