Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I hope that's right!
A shame that we don't have functioning press to represent us to the government ay.
Every single fucking one
Too manysipping the Cindy Kool AidFIFY
Not correct. There are a few. Very few. And the problem is that they don't command the attention of the more prominent Ardern hacks
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think the pathway to NZers being able to return more freely is still planning for fully vaccinated people being able to self-isolate rather than go into MIQ. The trial on this later this year is still planned to go ahead despite the latest Delta incursion, so that tells me the government is serious about that as the first stage of the plan.
I'm struggling to see what the trial is meant to prove. If it's that we can reduce border restrictions and still keep zero community cases, then it's pretty much guaranteed to fail. And when it does fail, what's going to happen? Another lockdown?
You either have to commit to a gradual reopening or stay with the elimination strategy. There's no point "trialing" it then reverting back when it ends up going exactly as predicted.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@tewaio said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I hope that's right!
A shame that we don't have functioning press to represent us to the government ay.
Every single fucking one
Too manysipping the Cindy Kool AidFIFY
Not correct. There are a few. Very few. And the problem is that they don't command the attention of the more prominent Ardern hacks
That is good to know. Anyone you would recommend reading/following?
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@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You either have to commit to a gradual reopening or stay with the elimination strategy. There's no point "trialing" it then reverting back when it ends up going exactly as predicted.
WE can't keep Delta out with MIQ. We certainly can't keep Delta out with home isolation. Even if there is a step change in border controls, it's only going to delay the inevitable.
Remember - non-Delta crossed the border, and we never figured out how. It's a giant mystery. So, assuming Covid re-emerges, teh question is 'what do you do'. FOr me, once everyone has had the chance to vaxx, you just keep on with business as usual, maybe a level 1.5 with masks to reduce spreading potential. But lockdowns have to go.
For context, I read that L4 costs 1.5Bn per week of lockdown in direct government costs. THat's about a half to a third of CRL in Auckland - which the council has nearly bankrupted itself to pay for. So, we get to choose - a three week lockdown, or a state of the art piece of modern infrastructure that supports a modern, low carbon economy and dense city. Which do we choose?
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@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think the pathway to NZers being able to return more freely is still planning for fully vaccinated people being able to self-isolate rather than go into MIQ. The trial on this later this year is still planned to go ahead despite the latest Delta incursion, so that tells me the government is serious about that as the first stage of the plan.
I'm struggling to see what the trial is meant to prove. If it's that we can reduce border restrictions and still keep zero community cases, then it's pretty much guaranteed to fail. And when it does fail, what's going to happen? Another lockdown?
You either have to commit to a gradual reopening or stay with the elimination strategy. There's no point "trialing" it then reverting back when it ends up going exactly as predicted.
Yep 100% this. Either they know this and all the rhetoric is just easing towards a proper reopening without upsetting chicken littles. Or they are actually really stupid and can't see the flaws in the "plan".
After Hipkiss came out and said the Delta outbreak "changed everything" - when as @MajorRage pointed out it gave them zero new information, I'm worried it is the latter...
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You either have to commit to a gradual reopening or stay with the elimination strategy. There's no point "trialing" it then reverting back when it ends up going exactly as predicted.
WE can't keep Delta out with MIQ. We certainly can't keep Delta out with home isolation. Even if there is a step change in border controls, it's only going to delay the inevitable.
Remember - non-Delta crossed the border, and we never figured out how. It's a giant mystery. So, assuming Covid re-emerges, teh question is 'what do you do'. FOr me, once everyone has had the chance to vaxx, you just keep on with business as usual, maybe a level 1.5 with masks to reduce spreading potential. But lockdowns have to go.
For context, I read that L4 costs 1.5Bn per week of lockdown in direct government costs. THat's about a half to a third of CRL in Auckland - which the council has nearly bankrupted itself to pay for. So, we get to choose - a three week lockdown, or a state of the art piece of modern infrastructure that supports a modern, low carbon economy and dense city. Which do we choose?
We are moving off topic a bit and into the realms of the Politics underworld thread, but a friend of mine (accountant) posted this today, linking to the following:
Scary numbers for NZ govt debt.
30/6/19 net debt $28.7b
30/6/20 net debt $49.3b
1/4/21 net debt $107.5bPretty worrying, as that shit needs to get paid paid eventually. Thanks next generation.
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@tewaio said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I hope that's right!
A shame that we don't have functioning press to represent us to the government ay.
Every single fucking one
Too manysipping the Cindy Kool AidFIFY
Not correct. There are a few. Very few. And the problem is that they don't command the attention of the more prominent Ardern hacks
That is good to know. Anyone you would recommend reading/following?
Heather Du Plessis-Allan, Andrea Vance and Mike Hosking come to mind
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You either have to commit to a gradual reopening or stay with the elimination strategy. There's no point "trialing" it then reverting back when it ends up going exactly as predicted.
WE can't keep Delta out with MIQ. We certainly can't keep Delta out with home isolation. Even if there is a step change in border controls, it's only going to delay the inevitable.
Remember - non-Delta crossed the border, and we never figured out how. It's a giant mystery. So, assuming Covid re-emerges, teh question is 'what do you do'. FOr me, once everyone has had the chance to vaxx, you just keep on with business as usual, maybe a level 1.5 with masks to reduce spreading potential. But lockdowns have to go.
For context, I read that L4 costs 1.5Bn per week of lockdown in direct government costs. THat's about a half to a third of CRL in Auckland - which the council has nearly bankrupted itself to pay for. So, we get to choose - a three week lockdown, or a state of the art piece of modern infrastructure that supports a modern, low carbon economy and dense city. Which do we choose?
We are moving off topic a bit and into the realms of the Politics underworld thread, but a friend of mine (accountant) posted this today, linking to the following:
Scary numbers for NZ govt debt.
30/6/19 net debt $28.7b
30/6/20 net debt $49.3b
1/4/21 net debt $107.5bPretty worrying, as that shit needs to get paid paid eventually. Thanks next generation.
It more means inflation than anything. Govt debt isn't like personal or business debt in that it needs to be paid back some day. It's basically money borrowed off itself, or in other words printed money.
Doesn't make it any less worrying.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat don't be so flippant and dismissive, i've read it 3 times (the worst was before the edit when they first posted when it said gradual re-opening in 2023)
"opening up" given what he is talking about, what does that look like? Because it still looks a lot like 14 day quarantine for the immediate and not-so-immediate future. Who the fuck has the time to add 14 days to the start of a trip? At cost? That is a pretty significant barrier. Especially for a bloke with two pretty active boys who would hate it. And it's not like you can just book a spot. They gonna open more hotels?
Add in the Qld idiocy and it's 14 days on the way back as well.
Cheery picking the two most positive sounding parts to once again minimise how we are feeling doesn't really help things does it?
Jesus. What?
yeah, by the time i read it a 2nd time it had been revised to 2022
Fucking hell. My boy is pretty likely to never hug at least one of his grandparents again.
Yep, had that conversation with the wife earlier. This is confirmation that there is no chance I'll see the old lady again, that the kids will see their Nana, As it stands, if she went took the final turn tomorrow, I don't think I'd even try to come home - because it appears impossible to get into or out of MIQ, let alone get a flight that matches the times. At best I'd probably be watching the funeral on zoom from a hotel room rather than at home with my kids.
So I was thinking about this just now. And I reflected that I've made it all about me and the kids. I haven't actually taken the time to ask myself, what would the old lady choose?
I thought of this as she sent me a message about being stoked to go back to L2, as it meant she could have coffee with friends, get her hair done, and go to the bookstore.
Made me realise that for all my assumptions that she really should be wanting us to be able to get back to NZ, maybe what she really wants is to live the last 6-12 months of her life enjoying herself in the most normal way possible. And how the heck can I blame her for that? Isn't everyday normality for a period of time like that better than a 3 day visit from me and my monsters?
Anyway, point is only that I guess everyone has different and very personal opinions on what we should do based on their personal circumstances. I don't even understand what my own mother is thinking let alone anyone else.
Of course I'd like for NZ to live without lockdowns and ALSO to have the border open for me, I'm not deviating from that broader view. Just trying to not be so dismissive of people who think differently.
For tonight anyway..
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@tewaio said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Not exactly unbiased, but....
I was going to read that article just so I could rant that if you can talk about being in a police state you probably aren't in a police state but (and even if that article is overseas) the amount of privacy data it asked for put me off.
We're not a police state, we just track and identify everything you do...
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@tewaio slight correction, everywhere outside Auckland is at L2, not L3...given that article was dated 08/09 am sure he had time to correct it before pushing publish.
Still seems a slight disconnect between some of the stuff we hear/read too out of Hipkiss and Cindy.
Be great if the media did ask decent questions of her, the way they have a crack at Judith, they need to be having it on with Cindy too.
WE can't keep Delta out with MIQ. We certainly can't keep Delta out with home isolation. Even if there is a step change in border controls, it's only going to delay the inevitable.
Yep, can keep Delta out as well as we can keep the seasonal flu out...in 2017 when the Lions visited, NZ had a spike in the flu, supposedly because of all the Brits, our flu jab wasnt for that strain...
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IMO the best NZ news organisation (interest.co.nz) won't have a bar of zerohedge as a credible source of news (and they're both broadly working in the same financial news field). So, I've formed my opinion firmly on that
They used to re-publish / link quite a bit of zerohedge during the previous editorial days (a decade ago), e.g. when Bernard Hickey wrote for them. Now, if someone links one of their articles in the comments section their staff are pretty quick to poo-poo the source as crap.
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Here is the vax rates of all 33 OECD countries. This is by total populatoin (not adults / over 12s etc)
TBH, I didn't know some of them were in that club. Like Colombia for example.
(Also note: There are other rich, and highly vaxxed countries not in this club; e.g. China, The Gulf Arab monarchies. Plus highly vaxxed middle income countries like Uruguay, Chile, Malta)
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@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
You either have to commit to a gradual reopening or stay with the elimination strategy. There's no point "trialing" it then reverting back when it ends up going exactly as predicted.
WE can't keep Delta out with MIQ. We certainly can't keep Delta out with home isolation. Even if there is a step change in border controls, it's only going to delay the inevitable.
Remember - non-Delta crossed the border, and we never figured out how. It's a giant mystery. So, assuming Covid re-emerges, teh question is 'what do you do'. FOr me, once everyone has had the chance to vaxx, you just keep on with business as usual, maybe a level 1.5 with masks to reduce spreading potential. But lockdowns have to go.
For context, I read that L4 costs 1.5Bn per week of lockdown in direct government costs. THat's about a half to a third of CRL in Auckland - which the council has nearly bankrupted itself to pay for. So, we get to choose - a three week lockdown, or a state of the art piece of modern infrastructure that supports a modern, low carbon economy and dense city. Which do we choose?
We are moving off topic a bit and into the realms of the Politics underworld thread, but a friend of mine (accountant) posted this today, linking to the following:
Scary numbers for NZ govt debt.
30/6/19 net debt $28.7b
30/6/20 net debt $49.3b
1/4/21 net debt $107.5bPretty worrying, as that shit needs to get paid paid eventually. Thanks next generation.
'Eventually' being the operative word - governments can keep issuing bonds to pay off bonds more or less forever (the UK only paid off its WW2 debt fairly recently, and the US was technically paying off Civil War debt well into the 20th Century).
If the interest rates on the bonds are less than the prevailing inflation rates, the government is even making money doing it (in that the buying power of the money was higher when borrowed than when repaid). I'm sure there is a limit eventually on demand for government bonds (outside quantitive easing), but based on Australia, we are nowhere near it.
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@canefan Surely you jest. Vance is OK but the other two are probably the biggest click bait whores in NZ just aiming at a different target audience.
Plus Hosking is fucking thick. As in surprised he can tie his own shoelaces thick. To steal a @Hooroo descriptor my hatiest media personality, cause he's certainly no journalist.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan Surely you jest. Vance is OK but the other two are probably the biggest click bait whores in NZ just aiming at a different target audience.
Plus Hosking is fucking thick. As in surprised he can tie his own shoelaces thick. To steal a @Hooroo descriptor my hatiest media personality, cause he's certainly no journalist.
To you, it's gifted.
I can't believe how much stock some people take in Hosking.
I have what I would call a close friend that has fallen well off the centre and into the right and it's just embarrassing some of the dross he reposts.
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So, I guess we have a decent sample of data from this Auckland cluster to get a gauge on how well set up we are to handle delta?
Anybody ready anything informative yet on that?Yesterday, I was reading this interesting article on NSW .
(I said in a comment above that interst.co.nz is best NZ news source IMO, but I wouldn't normally reccommend the comments section under the articles. (Extremists from both ends and spruikers haunt those halls. Making it hard to find the good stuff)
But, In the comments section a few comments caught my attention by a person claiming to be a Doctor at Middlemore Hospital. Assuming that is true ...
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I haven't followed the hospitalisation data.
From here we can get current info. But what was the peak of the hospitalisation and ICU usage of the cluster, anyone know?
What did we max at? 40ish in hospital, 8 in ICU?