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@taniwharugby said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
Its when Govt involves themselves in these types without proper consultation with people doing the job, similar happened last year with new compliance for the Insurance and Finance Industry, Govt gives a one size fits all piece of legislation for banks, stock brokers/agent, Finance Advisors, Health, Life Brokers, Fire & General Insurance Brokers, which doesnt, fit, all.
Was talking to my bank manager the other day and it is almost like banks are pushing the envelope to the edge, when they dont need to.
A lady at work, is going through it as they are building a house, her husband owns a very successful business, they have another smaller new, but also successful business, they are borrowing circa 50% of the value of a home that will be worth near 2m upon completion (even accounting for batshit prices up here, it will be a quality pad) yet they are pointing to coffees, dinners etc...
Same happened with me. They want to know everything, it's like the farken Gestapo
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@jc said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
But the worst thing the CCCFA amendment did was make senior managers and directors personally responsible for any enforcement action. So in the situation above Person B makes a complaint, which is upheld. The GM Lending at Bank A possibly gets censured and fined. The fine can be up to $200,000 per incident. The directors and senior managers are jointly and severally liable alongside the bank for statutory penalties and exemplary damages. Crucially (sorry, no pun intended) the directors and senior managers can insure themselves against statutory penalties but the Act specifically prohibits them from insuring themselves against any damages.
So it'll be no surprise that the directors and senior managers have instructed their staff to be very careful. So there we have the unintended consequence. There are penalties for doing the right thing wrongly (lending money incorrectly) but none for doing the wrong thing rightly (not lending at all). And the outcome of trying to protect vulnerable borrowers is that they can't become borrowers in the first place.
This is it. If you sheet home personal liability to directors who can't lay it off, they respond by becoming very cautious. It's exactly what the HSW act tried to do - make it the director's responsibility, and prevent them from insuring against any liability.
Side note, this also means fark being a director. The remuneration isn't worth the liability - something goes wrong, and you'll wind up getting smoked in court. No surprise that a lot of really good directors are choosing to pull back directorships. Unintended consequences are real, and someone (maybe @jc) said it well up top - people are used to dealing with people like them; running into some smart, cynical people who work to lever open holes and cracks in legislation and regulation.
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When we got our mortgage last year they didnโt seem too impressed that I had a full use work vehicle ( which saves a fucken shitload considering the girl doesnโt drive ) but seemed to frown on the fact we had Netflix, Neon AND Disney Plusโฆโฆ
In true Scottish fashion I canned the latter and only steal the boys login to watch Boba Fett. Seemed to fool the bank at any rate.
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@gt12 said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
My thoughts about returning to NZ were already pretty bad, but this might be the point that pushes me to say fuck it. They seriously look at whether you have Netflix etc? Really? Fuck me.
Unless you are buying cash / outright I suspect you'd be fucked anyway.
Can't imagine sending through foreign bank statements or NZ bank statements showing fuck all activity would be accepted. There are probably exceptions for Chinese though.
More likely to find you arrested.
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@jc said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
But the worst thing the CCCFA amendment did was make senior managers and directors personally responsible for any enforcement action. So in the situation above Person B makes a complaint, which is upheld. The GM Lending at Bank A possibly gets censured and fined. The fine can be up to $200,000 per incident. The directors and senior managers are jointly and severally liable alongside the bank for statutory penalties and exemplary damages. Crucially (sorry, no pun intended) the directors and senior managers can insure themselves against statutory penalties but the Act specifically prohibits them from insuring themselves against any damages.
So it'll be no surprise that the directors and senior managers have instructed their staff to be very careful. So there we have the unintended consequence. There are penalties for doing the right thing wrongly (lending money incorrectly) but none for doing the wrong thing rightly (not lending at all). And the outcome of trying to protect vulnerable borrowers is that they can't become borrowers in the first place.
Yes some of the financial stuff I'm still involved in we've had to change the rules for NZ based directors. And we won't be bringing any new NZ based directors on board.
As what can only be described of perfectly typical of the current NZ government, what they are trying to achieve is not necessarily a bad thing. However they way they have gone about it is completely counter-intuitive to actually achieving what they want, and brings about a whole other bunch of unintended consequences.
I've always thought that directors have far far too much power as it is, given how hands off they are on the companies they direct. Then when you couple continual diversity push onto BoD's it's a bit of a recipe for disaster. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a board of white men does a better job of things. But a board elected 100% on merit sure as hell does.
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@gt12 said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
My thoughts about returning to NZ were already pretty bad, but this might be the point that pushes me to say fuck it. They seriously look at whether you have Netflix etc? Really? Fuck me.
If you only have the basic plan you might be okay if you're earning over $500,000 a year. But if you have standard, or premium, no way your mortgage is getting approved.
Thankfully, my Netflix is included with my phone bill, so they can't turn me down for that.
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One other thing to consider is that they may not actually care wether or not you have Netflix. If the scorecard algorithm doesnโt wave you straight through the application will go to a manual review queue. The Netflix / avo toast questions are how they demonstrate that they actually discussed affordability with you. Itโs how they can prove their due diligence. Itโs invasive, sure, but itโs really not personal.
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@majorrage said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
@gt12 said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
My thoughts about returning to NZ were already pretty bad, but this might be the point that pushes me to say fuck it. They seriously look at whether you have Netflix etc? Really? Fuck me.
Unless you are buying cash / outright I suspect you'd be fucked anyway.
Can't imagine sending through foreign bank statements or NZ bank statements showing fuck all activity would be accepted. There are probably exceptions for Chinese though.
More likely to find you arrested.
Our original plan was to build (we own land) with cash, but with the inflated prices there now, I don't think we can do it for a lot more years than I want. We can afford to hold it, but I don't see us coming home now.
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@jc I'm hoping that is the worst case for our home reno borrowing. We are in a fortunate position in terms of debt, and we aren't going for a huge amount. But it will be interesting to see if we slip through and get approved immediately, or we go down the audit route.
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You blokes voted for Saint Jackie Jackie, Kirwan, twice. Child poverty would end by 2027 she said. More free doctors, child minding/feeding at school, fabulous pay rises for teachers she said. World's best new housing creation she said, grand new subsidies for those who cannot afford to go to work.
What did you get? About seven new welfare houses, 350,000 to 400,000 people on taxpayer funded fortnightly money for nothing, 4% unemployment, GDP 1.9% - continuing a 7-year trend south - government debt at NZD$102,080 million / 30% of GDP and nowhere to go!
What did you think would happen?
The smart young things, who assess their political leaders on some sort of empathy scale (which doesn't pay the rent), were always going to arrive at the point I am reading about here now. They are about to get a fabulous surprise, difficulties they never contemplated, a shock to their aspirations. Whether they pay attention or not is anyone's guess.
You will get the opportunity to give her another go in just two years.
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@gt12 said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
My thoughts about returning to NZ were already pretty bad, but this might be the point that pushes me to say fuck it. They seriously look at whether you have Netflix etc? Really? Fuck me.
Yep. The girl and I had seperate accounts so our broker ( who was outstanding ) suggested we can one of them quick smart which we did
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@paekakboyz if you have equity already, its more this is how much we want to give you.
My neighbour has thier house next door, 18 months ago bought a rental, and then have bought another, all based on the equity in the existing property, no deposit or anything, just we can loan you x for your 2nd rental property.
Changes to the H & S Act, along with other compliance stuff over the years, has seen alot of people who owned thier own businesses sell up or exit the industry sooner than they had planned, and some were able to retire, while some went and worked for someone else to avoid having to deal with all the compliance as a business owner/director.
THe company I work for, bought acquired a local business, all the staff came over, but one guy retired within 2 months (he was the catalyst for the acquisition as he was wanting to retire) another retired during the 1st lock down and the other 2 within a year (all had been planned exit from the industry) all because they didnt want to have to deal with the certification and compliance side of things that had been in the pipelines for many years, most of which is overkill and based on the assumption that all the consumers in our industry are stupid.
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@mick-gold-coast-qld said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
You blokes voted for Saint Jackie Jackie, Kirwan, twice. Child poverty would end by 2027 she said. More free doctors, child minding/feeding at school, fabulous pay rises for teachers she said. World's best new housing creation she said, grand new subsidies for those who cannot afford to go to work.
What did you get? About seven new welfare houses, 350,000 to 400,000 people on taxpayer funded fortnightly money for nothing, 4% unemployment, GDP 1.9% - continuing a 7-year trend south - government debt at NZD$102,080 million / 30% of GDP and nowhere to go!
What did you think would happen?
The smart young things, who assess their political leaders on some sort of empathy scale (which doesn't pay the rent), were always going to arrive at the point I am reading about here now. They are about to get a fabulous surprise, difficulties they never contemplated, a shock to their aspirations. Whether they pay attention or not is anyone's guess.
You will get the opportunity to give her another go in just two years.
Not sure why this directed at me, thought Iโd been pretty clear who I voted for.
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It is directed at "you blokes", the voters, and attached to cogent comments you made identifying the subject it is focused on ... "government was warned by two different groups what the impact of their legislation would be ...".
My treatise is not to you individually. Perhaps I should have addressed it to "youse".
I haven't especially noticed voting (or other) characteristics of individuals here because I am afraid to attend often, having been warned off by one of the Fern's brightest - for being old I gather - it makes him feeeel uneasy and causes him to swear a lot, in a tough way.
I have been aware of what your government has been cooking up - it's in the papers.
Thirty or more years ago I watched Kerry Packer bark back at a Senate hearing into paying tax:
"I am not evading tax in any way shape or form. Now, of course, I am minimising my tax. And if anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read. Because, as a government, I can tell you, **you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra**."
That had an impact - I started paying closer attention to what fools who couldn't run a chook raffle were doing with millions and billions; and keeping track of government borrowings. It was alarming.
I am attempting to point up the need for young blokes in their economic prime to study closely how much government is scooping up from them and who it is being spent on.
That's a sight more effective use of their time and energy than furious agreement with strangers on a blog about trivia ... that Morrison is evil, just like Reagan and Trump; and that "Saint Jacinta cares for me and others - look at her sad face under the fez/hijab/Apache feathers" she has adopted for this week to maximise a headline opportunity; and so on.
Your government, your bellicose, snarling "foreign minister" this week for example, is a huge problem for New Zealand. The several political parties clearly know nothing about commercial management, yet they distract you so easily on incidentals such as repatriation of your exported criminals and who should speak what language. The most productive group is a mere 20% of your 5 million people - too low a proportion doing the work of regularly providing for the rest.
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@mick-gold-coast-qld said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
It is directed at "you blokes", the voters, and attached to cogent comments you made identifying the subject it is focused on ... "government was warned by two different groups what the impact of their legislation would be ...".
My treatise is not to you individually. Perhaps I should have addressed it to "youse".
I haven't especially noticed voting (or other) characteristics of individuals here because I am afraid to attend often, having been warned off by one of the Fern's brightest - for being old I gather - it makes him feeeel uneasy and causes him to swear a lot, in a tough way.
I have been aware of what your government has been cooking up - it's in the papers.
Thirty or more years ago I watched Kerry Packer bark back at a Senate hearing into paying tax:
"I am not evading tax in any way shape or form. Now, of course, I am minimising my tax. And if anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read. Because, as a government, I can tell you, **you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra**."
That had an impact - I started paying closer attention to what fools who couldn't run a chook raffle were doing with millions and billions; and keeping track of government borrowings. It was alarming.
I am attempting to point up the need for young blokes in their economic prime to study closely how much government is scooping up from them and who it is being spent on.
That's a sight more effective use of their time and energy than furious agreement with strangers on a blog about trivia ... that Morrison is evil, just like Reagan and Trump; and that "Saint Jacinta cares for me and others - look at her sad face under the fez/hijab/Apache feathers" she has adopted for this week to maximise a headline opportunity; and so on.
Your government, your bellicose, snarling "foreign minister" this week for example, is a huge problem for New Zealand. The several political parties clearly know nothing about commercial management, yet they distract you so easily on incidentals such as repatriation of your exported criminals and who should speak what language. The most productive group is a mere 20% of your 5 million people - too low a proportion doing the work of regularly providing for the rest.
Believe me, no one is tough on the fern. Donโt worry about it
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@mn5 said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
@mick-gold-coast-qld said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
It is directed at "you blokes", the voters, and attached to cogent comments you made identifying the subject it is focused on ... "government was warned by two different groups what the impact of their legislation would be ...".
My treatise is not to you individually. Perhaps I should have addressed it to "youse".
I haven't especially noticed voting (or other) characteristics of individuals here because I am afraid to attend often, having been warned off by one of the Fern's brightest - for being old I gather - it makes him feeeel uneasy and causes him to swear a lot, in a tough way.
I have been aware of what your government has been cooking up - it's in the papers.
Thirty or more years ago I watched Kerry Packer bark back at a Senate hearing into paying tax:
"I am not evading tax in any way shape or form. Now, of course, I am minimising my tax. And if anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read. Because, as a government, I can tell you, **you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra**."
That had an impact - I started paying closer attention to what fools who couldn't run a chook raffle were doing with millions and billions; and keeping track of government borrowings. It was alarming.
I am attempting to point up the need for young blokes in their economic prime to study closely how much government is scooping up from them and who it is being spent on.
That's a sight more effective use of their time and energy than furious agreement with strangers on a blog about trivia ... that Morrison is evil, just like Reagan and Trump; and that "Saint Jacinta cares for me and others - look at her sad face under the fez/hijab/Apache feathers" she has adopted for this week to maximise a headline opportunity; and so on.
Your government, your bellicose, snarling "foreign minister" this week for example, is a huge problem for New Zealand. The several political parties clearly know nothing about commercial management, yet they distract you so easily on incidentals such as repatriation of your exported criminals and who should speak what language. The most productive group is a mere 20% of your 5 million people - too low a proportion doing the work of regularly providing for the rest.
Believe me, no one is tough on the fern. Donโt worry about it
Oi, Iโll farken have you!
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@mn5 said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
@mick-gold-coast-qld said in Bank Lending/CCCFA:
It is directed at "you blokes", the voters, and attached to cogent comments you made identifying the subject it is focused on ... "government was warned by two different groups what the impact of their legislation would be ...".
My treatise is not to you individually. Perhaps I should have addressed it to "youse".
I haven't especially noticed voting (or other) characteristics of individuals here because I am afraid to attend often, having been warned off by one of the Fern's brightest - for being old I gather - it makes him feeeel uneasy and causes him to swear a lot, in a tough way.
I have been aware of what your government has been cooking up - it's in the papers.
Thirty or more years ago I watched Kerry Packer bark back at a Senate hearing into paying tax:
"I am not evading tax in any way shape or form. Now, of course, I am minimising my tax. And if anybody in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read. Because, as a government, I can tell you, **you're not spending it that well that we should be donating extra**."
That had an impact - I started paying closer attention to what fools who couldn't run a chook raffle were doing with millions and billions; and keeping track of government borrowings. It was alarming.
I am attempting to point up the need for young blokes in their economic prime to study closely how much government is scooping up from them and who it is being spent on.
That's a sight more effective use of their time and energy than furious agreement with strangers on a blog about trivia ... that Morrison is evil, just like Reagan and Trump; and that "Saint Jacinta cares for me and others - look at her sad face under the fez/hijab/Apache feathers" she has adopted for this week to maximise a headline opportunity; and so on.
Your government, your bellicose, snarling "foreign minister" this week for example, is a huge problem for New Zealand. The several political parties clearly know nothing about commercial management, yet they distract you so easily on incidentals such as repatriation of your exported criminals and who should speak what language. The most productive group is a mere 20% of your 5 million people - too low a proportion doing the work of regularly providing for the rest.
Believe me, no one is tough on the fern. Donโt worry about it
True. I wear slippers before winter.
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Look, really MN5, I am touched that you care enough to reach out - a new warm term I have learned from my life coach, who is helping me through the fear. However ...
I have counselled a couple of the local supermarket check out technician-ettes when they ask "How are you?"
Lovely young things that they are I suggest that when they see an old bloke approaching they must assume that he either:
a) lived a miserable life and doesn't care much for people, or
b) he lives alone and no-one has spoken to him for a week and a half, he "might think you really care and stand here boring you witless for a half hour!"
They must take control I say, by making an assertion - "What a fabulous morning!" responding to it themselves "Lovely breeze out there" and moving him along "That'll be 3 and sixpence thanks".
Now, you do seem to be a nice chap, have you got some time to hear about the old days?
(Ooohhh! Little Ash Barty was 6-4, 2-5 but now she's back near square. Better go!)
Bank Lending/CCCFA