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one of the best new proposals i have seen in melbourne, trackless, battery operated trams....thats called a bus
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@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
light rail appears to be the biggest money sink hole ever invented. Not sure i have seen a project run on time, to cost, and provide the benefits.
If the Croydon line is anything to go by it usually gets people around no faster than a bus. Too many stops, to slow to get to speed etc etc
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@mn5 said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
How bout a monorail ?
@nta said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
As for light rail, ask Sydney how that's going...
...see above
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@antipodean if done right it does, doesn't have to deal with traffic to the same extent as buses and doesn't need the same land investment for dedicated rail corridors
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@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@antipodean if done right it does, doesn't have to deal with traffic to the same extent as buses and doesn't need the same land investment for dedicated rail corridors
Sure. Tell that to Canberra and Sydney. Light rail is like socialism - just never implemented properly.
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@antipodean said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@antipodean if done right it does, doesn't have to deal with traffic to the same extent as buses and doesn't need the same land investment for dedicated rail corridors
Sure. Tell that to Canberra and Sydney. Light rail is like socialism - just never implemented properly.
20th century solution.
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@antipodean i don't know a lot about canberra but sydney is largely down to jamming an overly ambitious project into a very dense, winding and hilly city retrospectively, plus a bit of COVID added in
Chch might have been retrospective, but a city famous for its wide, flat and straight roads that already has an admittedly touristy tram in the CBD...newer sections of melbourne are a much better comparison in my mind, grid network of roads etc and they work
Less light rails inherent faults and more people poorly implementation
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@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@crucial all jokes aside i do find the Melbourne system pretty good, enough dedicated lines to keep a pretty good schedule
Melbourne is great. It shows the benefit of not pulling up all that infrastructure like all the other cities did. Sydney's light rail seems to be just a mechanism to transfer huge amounts of money to Spanish company bank accounts. I don't think the Light Rail in Sydney is inherently a bad thing, it was needed out East, as those plastic lipped lot are never going to let real rail out that way, it was seemingly just badly contracted and implemented.
On the bus v tram, I have a mate who lives in Dulwich Hill, their tram line is down, re: @nta's article above, so he's had to bus the few times into the city and he's hating it due to the added time and stops.
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@kiwiwomble Those wide flat and straight roads are one of the absolutely key reasons dropping trams in the middle of a few of them makes sense in Chch. Ok I've certainly underestimated the cost of doing it, but logistically in comparison to other cities ala Sydney as an example, it's gotta be easier and cheaper.
Putting aside whether or not they're the ideal arterials to plonk trams on commercially, routes such as the airport to city centre via Memorial Ave, Fendalton Rd, Deans Ave, Riccarton Ave and Tuam St, and from the city centre via Moorhouse Ave, Ferry Rd and Main Rd to Sumner, would logistically be relatively straightforward as they're all wide enough to take trams while still retaining a lane in each direction.
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Others that scream "plonk a tram up my guts" include from Hornby Mall up Main Sth Rd, Blenheim Rd (ok a couple of obstacles to navigate there in an overbridge and the Sockburn roundabout), through the bit of land by PlaceMakers and onto Moorhouse Ave. Bazinga.
Then there's Prestons subdivision, maybe out via Mairehau Rd and into the CBD via Marshlands Rd, Hills Rd and Bealey Ave (unlike most of the others I've suggested, I wouldnt ruin Bealey Ave's picturesque central traffic island but run the trams either side of the road, if that can be made to work).
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@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@kiwiwomble Those wide flat and straight roads are one of the absolutely key reasons dropping trams in the middle of a few of them makes sense in Chch. Ok I've certainly underestimated the cost of doing it, but logistically in comparison to other cities ala Sydney as an example, it's gotta be easier and cheaper.
Just to be clear, I was agreeing, maybe not now but I feel it was a missed opportunity when earthquake repairs were being done
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@kiwiwomble yep, all good, got that.
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Light rail if done properly has advantages over both HR and buses,
By done properly I mean grade separated, prioritised tracks through densely populated urban areas.
The first thing to discount is buses. They run into capacity issues way too soon Plus the old joke about waiting for ever for a bus and then they all turn up together is true. The routes tend to concertina at areas with delays. You also have issues at the terminating station with a turnaround whereas rail simply reverses out. They are much slower mainly because of the reasons above and also because embarcation dwell times are much slower (one door etc)
Heavy rail is much more expensive to build and typically doesn't run through where the people are unless you underground it which is prohibitively expensive. It does carry even more people than LR Though but needs bigger more expensive stations and has fewer of them so the catchment area is smaller.
The other alternative is light metro which is effectively LR which is effectively LR underground with again fewer more expensive stations abut bigger trains and faster dwell times plus you can run driverless trains.
Akl Transport were ready to proceed with LR down Dominion Road to Mt Roskill until Labour got in and intervened. The plans were pretty much done and would have resolved bus capacity issues on Dominion Road. It would have meant pedestrianising Queen Street and was planned to result in the rejuvenation of Dominion Road.
Then Labour and particularly muppet Phil Twyford got involved and all that has happened is we have ended up with years of delays and now (just announced) we have a hybrid system which is trying to be all things to all people and probably (if it ever gets built) is going to fail because it is heavily compromised.
It is undergound for a long way which means nothing is done about the issues on Dominion Road, it avoids any retail centres so as not to annoy retailers but dog legs to the Uni and a housing development by Kainga Ora in Three Kings and into Onehunga and Mangere town centres to the airport. All this means it is a longer route so the speed advantages of the tunnels are then negated.
Plus most importantly it is eye wateringly expensive. For the proposed price you could build AT's original proposition plus a (much needed) similar grade separated LR system from the CBD to Westgate.
As I said originally LR done properly works well (plenty of examples overseas) The proposed Akl solution is a camel of a plan. I thought Sydney ridership had improved - although the cost and delays on that system were staggering. Mind you Sydney has had its fair share of Transport bungles the Cahill freeway and rail to the airport spring to mind.
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@donsteppa is it light rail? i thought city rail loop was heavy rail connecting with the wider rail network
The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail)