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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@stodders said in British Politics:
I hope in years to come people will see the benefit in finding solutions for themselves amongst their communities rather than using the common refrain of "the government needs to spend more". If the government spends more, we all lose out long-term. People have forgotten this and have bought into the fantasy of the magic money tree.
I agree. The only way this will happen though is when people look at the cards in front of them, and start playing them. A good government should never be the key thing behind a populations success or failure. They are there to provide an infrastructure. Nothing more.
The Britain I once knew, and loved, appreciated that. I'm not entirely sure thats the case anymore.
You only have to look at the NHS to see it isn't
What was once there for births, deaths and emergencies has been destroyed by people unwilling to help themselves
Which is why I'm firmly behind it being charged for. What is free, will be wasted. That is one of lifes rules.
If you cut taxes by 5p in the dollar, and then charge 50% of cost for NHS, with your total costs capped by that same 5p in the dollar, watch what happens then. It'll very quickly revert to being for births, deaths emergencies. And it'll be much better funded with people taking better care of themselves.
Those that don't pay tax will of course be disadvantaged. And I say, fuck 'em.
Sadly, suggesting this is political suicide. the NHS has become a sacred cow that nobody can touch. But someone has to offer their neck to get it done; you may as well burn any additional money rather than give it to the NHS for all of the good it will do in its current form.
This is not a sleight on the medical professionals who work within the system. The majority give their all and I am grateful for their service. But record numbers are leaving the NHS and they cannot be replaced fast enough. Like Mike has said above, we need to get back to seeing at as a last stop service for births, deaths and emergencies.
And once we have started fixing the NHS, we can focus on modernising the welfare system. This has been bastardised from the original concept that Beveridge proposed in the 40s. Again, it should be safety net of last resort for those who cannot work, not a means to live on for those that can.
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@MajorRage said in Passing of Queen Elizabeth:
Boris may be hated by many, but this is as a good a statement as you'll see, anywhere.
He can turn a word, but he's still a turd
That needs to be flushed -
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
but the buggers won’t work
The 1945 Attlee government was the closest to a socialist administration Britain has come. Its policy of nationalising industries to secure control of the “commanding heights of the economy” was what the unions represented in these industries wanted. But not even that government could avoid industrial disputes: a dock strike provoked Ernest Bevin, foreign secretary and former leader of the Transport and General Workers’ Union, to grumble that “the buggers won’t work”.
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
I can’t remember if it was Beveridge or Bevan who’s last word’s reportedly, we’re “but the buggers won’t work”.
If you're referring to Nye Bevan - who founded the NHS - he was, in many way was a prototype of today's hate-filled, divisive, extremist politicians and had a visceral hatred of people who didn't share his political views. I read a fair bit about him a few years back and he came across as a really odious individual.
Like almost all good socialists who made a career of bashing the rich, he died a multi-millionaire land-owner
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@stodders said in British Politics:
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
but the buggers won’t work
The 1945 Attlee government was the closest to a socialist administration Britain has come. Its policy of nationalising industries to secure control of the “commanding heights of the economy” was what the unions represented in these industries wanted. But not even that government could avoid industrial disputes: a dock strike provoked Ernest Bevin, foreign secretary and former leader of the Transport and General Workers’ Union, to grumble that “the buggers won’t work”.
Have you read Corelli Barnett's The Lost Victory: British Dreams, British Realities, 1945-1950 ?
It's a pretty devastating critique of Attlee's government which argues (among other things) the Welfare State & NHS was flawed from the start, Ministers knew it but were more interested in building power within the Labour Party and bashing the rich than actually improving lives.
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See also Labour Party governmental management 1945-2009
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
See also Labour Party governmental management 1945-2009
Both parties, TBF.
Lack of long-term ambition, defeatist attitudes, running away from tough decisions..... The list could go on.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
I can’t remember if it was Beveridge or Bevan who’s last word’s reportedly, we’re “but the buggers won’t work”.
If you're referring to Nye Bevan - who founded the NHS - he was, in many way was a prototype of today's hate-filled, divisive, extremist politicians and had a visceral hatred of people who didn't share his political views. I read a fair bit about him a few years back and he came across as a really odious individual.
Like almost all good socialists who made a career of bashing the rich, he died a multi-millionaire land-owner
Different person
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Beveridge, Bevan, Bevin. I can't tell these buggers apart - they all look the same to me.
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Amazing budget from Kwasi today. Staying the course would guarantee defeat to Labour in 2yrs, at least he's having a swing for the fences.
For all the left wing bleating about tax cuts for the rich, primarily from those who don't pay any tax at all, this graph is extraordinary:
Astonishing the increase of the tax take since New Labour, and then continuing post the Cameron/Osborne austerity. Corresponds to a massively inefficient and bloated NHS and civil service, and a dire lack of productivity growth. Covid then reinforced this culture of "the government must fix my problems".
Massive radical change is needed, it'll all probably be undone by the 2024 general election, but good on them for having a crack.
If only they'd cut VAT to 10% and eliminate stamp duty altogether, and use that change to reform a council tax system that is laughably still based on 1991 property values.
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@TeWaio Watching the Sterling today has been completely destructive, but I know that this is the right thing to get the country back on the right path. A growth strategy. A plan to make people get back to work and get above the 16 hour a week bullshit planted by Labour many moons ago. Better reward for the workers, fuck the rest of you. It's as simple as that.
Yes, the Yanks may not like it, but regardless of what is posted, there are still an awful lot of metrics which are much stronger in the UK than Europe / US. In my view it is being rather unfairly picked on, in some ways to deflect from own national issues, but at least by the EU, to keep the "Leaving the EU is bad" narrative afloat.
I acknowledge that some of these views are in a bit of hope, and perhaps the country is way more fucked than any other Western nation on the planet, but I struggle to comprehend that. I am also in hope, that the tax cuts are going to be offset in the near future by some serious NHS reform. It still fucks me off the way the Brits approach this piece of shit health system.
Actual conversation today with a British colleague who has moved to the Netherlands. He earns basically the same gross, pays more in tax but was raving about it. He said that in NL it's much better as he "only pays 120 a month" for health care, and for that he gets appointments quickly as well as referrals. Yes mate, that's called private health care. I have that as well, and unsurprisingly, I get the same service. Amazing how many of my colleagues rely on the NHS when we all have the same private health care which as 100 GBP per year excess.
Anyway, fingers crossed this works. Don't know if it will, but the left, and especially the far left seem to absolutely hate it. So it must be good.
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Went up to the Yorkshire Dales for a week and based ourselves at Keighley (Bronte country). Bit of a revelation race-relations wise.
Unlike London or even Cornwall, there seemed almost zero cultural mingling between Muslim groups/people and others, and the divide seemed stark in dress, day-day interactions and conversations. Go into any shop in the South and you'll see all sorts working there - hijabs, scarves and all. In Keithley it seemed all Muslim (only male) or non-Muslim. The owner of the B&B mentioned it too, saying many Muslims, even those born in the UK, wanted to keep to themselves and didn't want their children to become too westernised.
I know it's only a microcosm but there really did seem to be two worlds. Still don't know quite what to make of it, but was quite taken aback
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
Went up to the Yorkshire Dales for a week and based ourselves at Keighley (Bronte country). Bit of a revelation race-relations wise.
Unlike London or even Cornwall, there seemed almost zero cultural mingling between Muslim groups/people and others, and the divide seemed stark in dress, day-day interactions and conversations. Go into any shop in the South and you'll see all sorts working there - hijabs, scarves and all. In Keithley it seemed all Muslim (only male) or non-Muslim. The owner of the B&B mentioned it too, saying many Muslims, even those born in the UK, wanted to keep to themselves and didn't want their children to become too westernised.
I know it's only a microcosm but there really did seem to be two worlds. Still don't know quite what to make of it, but was quite taken aback
That's been my experience living in W Yorkshire for 4 years back in the late 80s and holidaying around the UK
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This is a good listen
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@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
That's been my experience living in W Yorkshire for 4 years back in the late 80s and holidaying around the UK
Says something if that hasn't changed in 40 years
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Out of a white mouth and the cops would have been called in
If she doesn't get booted then Labour are toast
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@TeWaio said in British Politics:
Hearing triple pension lock likely to go, HS2 scrapped, Bailey being made the fall guy for the utterly bonkers gilt/sterling volatility and Truss/Kwarteng staying the course. Good all around I reckon.
All irrelevant to British economics until NHS is put under real review.
REality is that GBP / USD rate is not as important as the GBP / EUR rate which has remained much less volatile. The Gilt market is another matter though, of course.
Not sure I agree Bailey is the right scape goat for the last few weeks, but he's certainly played his part over the last year.
Biggest thing for me which seemingly has gone un noticed, is that since Kwarteng met with the head of Investment banks, that GBP has been significantly calmer and has actually strengthened. It's now not far off where it was vs EUR a week ago. (1.13 vs 1.146).
Have the bankers started buying in?
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@TeWaio said in British Politics:
Hearing triple pension lock likely to go, HS2 scrapped, Bailey being made the fall guy for the utterly bonkers gilt/sterling volatility and Truss/Kwarteng staying the course. Good all around I reckon.
All irrelevant to British economics until NHS is put under real review.
REality is that GBP / USD rate is not as important as the GBP / EUR rate which has remained much less volatile. The Gilt market is another matter though, of course.
Not sure I agree Bailey is the right scape goat for the last few weeks, but he's certainly played his part over the last year.
Biggest thing for me which seemingly has gone un noticed, is that since Kwarteng met with the head of Investment banks, that GBP has been significantly calmer and has actually strengthened. It's now not far off where it was vs EUR a week ago. (1.13 vs 1.146).
Have the bankers started buying in?
Well they've made their money
British Politics