The Silver Fern

Surely - SURELY - after Luke Pearce's "bicep, not shoulder" yellow card against Scotland v Wallabies a few weeks back, Kremer escapes any form of punishment and should get an apology for that horrible decision?

Yes waiter, I had the sour grapes. Put them here next to my whine.

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@MiketheSnow said in Wales v Argentina 12 Nov 22:

I must have been watching a different match

When the stadium announcer said ‘and today’s MOTM is…’

Everyone around me said Tomos Williams

He is everything wrong with Welsh rugby

Faletau put a tremendous shift in

But Tompkins MOTM for me

Without him we don’t look like scoring

North must be pound for pound the weakest player in the Welsh team

Dyer went well again

LRZ looked very comfortable at 15

Terrible coaching putting Rowlands back on

Or maybe gunshy from all the head knocks ?

@Daffy-Jaffy first Seibold now Hodgson. What’s with the Aussie leaguies for defence coaches?

@Frank nope , not at all. As a Stormers supporter I hate the current gameplan as much as anyone else. Our coach tried the same (when we had the Bok tight 5, Kolisi and PSdT) but he changed that and got results

@SidBarret said in Argentina v Bokke 1:

@Bones pretty sure i saw the rule clarification posted somewhere online. Doleman applied a stupid rule correctly I think.

not this section? Doesn't seem clear to me

worldrugby.org Laws of the Game | World Rugby Laws Laws of the Game | World Rugby Laws

Individual Laws of the game of rugby union.

@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

“I’m one of the guys that says ‘the things that happens on the field stays on the field, that’s how it has to be always."

Clearly this is not true. The next word was 'But'

"he just continued picking on me"

"it really hurt me"

"He said things that I’m sensitive about"

"I just couldn’t understand why he kept picking on me"

It's almost like Coles singled out an emotional player and tried to get him to lose focus on the game.

I'm shocked. Nothing like this ever happens in top level sports.

Won't someone think of the children?? Oh Pablo pulled out that bullshit too

"I know there’s a lot of young kids or young players watched the game and it’s not a good example"

zzzzz

Smart from Coles, targetted what appears to be a mentally weak player.

Nothing the opposition says should stop you thinking about the game. Fitzy would be proud.

But did it affect him thinking about the game, during the game? All it seemed to impact was the post game handshake…

Certainly did, he was chasing Coles several times rather than getting into position

@pakman said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:

Pretty funny justifications going on here for Taylor. How many Tests does it take to learn to take a half step and throw it down the middle?

Was kinda important.

If there is any accountability left in selection he’d be gone. Stunk up the joint for 35 minutes.

Also - wasn't it an all Crusaders tight 5 when he came on (and wasn't that the point)?

Problem maybe Kiwi refs letting them get away with such for years?

This

And 'line ball' passes

Watched the remainder just now.

I maintain there was fuck all between the teams and to be honest the Ockers were probably more creative and looked more likely to score.

Obviously the better team (the one who scored more points being the the one who conceded less points) won.

But not sure you can point the blame at Rennie because his team looked more likely to score more and concede less.

Happy if the Aussies toss him pre RWC though.

@booboo said in Pumas v Wallabies I:

Watching "Mini" on Stan.

Just on half time ref pings Aus for jumping across the line...

Only did that because the throw wasn't straight dick head ...

See my previous comment about Mike Adamson hating Rugby

@MN5 said in Argentina v Scotland - another series decider:

@Machpants said in Argentina v Scotland - another series decider:

Fuck you Scotland, I had ten bucks on Ireland, England, SA, and Scotland multi

Betting on Scotland is a fools ploy my friend.

It was bloody close tho!

Watched some of game, did anyone else notice that there no scoreboard? Refs had to go to TV on sideline for referrals, and Nic Berry had to actually ask the TMO for score not long before end of game.

@booboo said in Italy v Argentina:

Something about this match up just screams boredom.

In fairness, Italy want to play an open game.

@arhs said in France v Argentina:

Gardner and Carley are pretty good.

Gardner is a terrible referee.

@nta said in Wallabies v Pumas II:

Good press conference from Rennie.

"In my day it was a sprained ankle. Now it's syndesmosis which is apparently worse..."

Not sure that you need us to send you Moses, you've been playing quite well the last few games.

It's a feeling I haven't had in a while as a Wallaby fan: to be happy with a comfortable win, but feeling we played a bit below our best. We left at least three tries on the park. JOC bombed one, Nic White didn't realise the law around grounding on the post pad had changed (unforgiveable), and a few times we lost our cool with numbers out wide.

But our general play around the park was as good as it's been in a long time. Defended well, secured our own ruck ball, created space and then exploited it with simple catch-and-pass. Our 10-12-13 is the best it's looked since the Foley-Giteau-AAC axis at the 2015 World Cup.

Sets up our NH tour really nicely. Not sure how undermanned we will be but that England game looks very enticing.

@machpants said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

@majorrage said in All Blacks vs Pumas II:

Still plenty to talk about on that game, so not going to lock it over one of the silliest spat's I've seen on TSF.

Ball, not the Man, team.

Is there an award for that?

Get in line, amateurs.

Can't really do anything with this fucking vertigo, so I had this still on the sky recorded. 2 points that came up later in the year confirmed

ABs attacking shape was fucking non existent, just individual brilliance made most of the tries. As mentioned above set piece was shit, but HEY we've got individual brilliance George bridge has no positive impact, he is such a pathetic thing to have as an all black 11. That's lomu's Jersey FFS.

Also TJ was rather good, aside from his desperate desire to take every penalty quickly. Conversely DMac was a fucking idiot, with no control, crap passing (first 6 mins, 3 passes to ground), and an ability to either pass to someone in a much poorer position, or run himself into a worse position.

@smuts said in Springboks v Pumas 2 - 21 August:

@bones it’s all relative… I’ll show myself out.

Subliminal...so the ref is related to one or many green jersey wearers? 😉

@sidbarret not the first team to look toothless in that position against this bok team. Won’t be the last either.

WTF. Where am I?

Had to check the web address. This thread has multiple compliments about the ref. Bloody stop it with that shit.

@mikethesnow said in Wales v Argentina:

@chris said in Wales v Argentina:

@mikethesnow said in Wales v Argentina:

@chris said in Wales v Argentina:

What absolute BS red card the welsh player hasn’t even gone for a HIA

Ha ha ha

What a ludicrous statement

Unlucky / poor technique doesn’t matter

Head on head = red

Shit weak card Ref had to help Wales some how .

Stop, you’re embarrassing yourself

Hahaha the only one embarrassing himself was the biased Referee in that watch.

@chimoaus of they could give the AR a laser pointer and he shines it in the eyes of the offending player to let him know 🙂

I think generally once players know they wont get away with it, they will adjust thier own behaviour.

@Tim said in Argentina Two: Newcastle, 28 November:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300176709/tri-nations-how-many-all-blacks-make-team-of-the-tournament

Chaparro was monstered by Tupou. LH has to be Moody, or failing him, Slipper.

Think I'd take Alemanno OR Phillip, matched with Whitelock.

And hard to go past Matera as fetcher.

@NTA no! This is the last time I try to explain reading a refs mind on a discussion forum! 😭

@pakman said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

@PecoTrain said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:

The thing which frustrates me is this is the same-old, same-old.

The problems we saw from 2017 onward are still there and it shows against a team which can out-muscle and out-discipline us. The strategy doesn't seem to have changed much either - go down the blind, spin it into the midfield where the likes of BB can exploit the gaps and fast counter attacks. That and occasional shit kicks and poor discipline.

Bullshit - the problem is that we don't try to build pressure on the opposition before running the ball. Seeing a gap early and exploiting it is a fantastic skill but running into it only to get smashed by the opposition and turnover the ball multiple times SHOULDN'T be part of the game plan.

I don't blame Foster for all of this as he's inherited a lot of the problems and you have to give him credit for some good stuff like making the lineout drive a potent weapon and actually trying to bring some continuity to team selection. But he really needs to have a good, hard look at his tactics, his team plan/style of play development and, above all, get the players heads right, both individually and collectively.

And I can't fault Cane either for his on-field attitude. Sure, he's still learning and some of his decisions aren't good, but he's giving 120% and is at least focussing on controlling the team and the game. Do Senior players like Sam Whitelock, Nugget and Beauden Barrett need to step up and get more involved both on and off the field?

I blame Foster and his coaching team - we have brilliant individuals that don't play well as a team and seem to have lost a lot of confidence in the space of a few weeks. Playing people out of position just compounds that. Our handling errors and lack of awareness during the game (Whitelock offloading to Lomax where Lomax just watches the ball go past him as an example) makes me question what the players are doing during training because they don't seem that familiar with how each other plays in the pitch.

I'm unsure Cane and Ardie can play well as a unit - I assume Foster subbed Frizell because of discipline warnings rather than Ardie as Frizell/Sotutu played well together versus Australia while I wouldn't have even noticed Ardie on the pitch if it wasn't for a late turnover.

And Ardie leads on to the real issue in the team - our mix of experience. Our senior players put in their shifts and generally play very well (Whitelock/Nugget/Moody/Coles/Beauden/Cane) but its the guys that are the next step down and have 20+ tests experience that are really struggling.

Jordie had a poor game, ALB was pretty anonymous, Goodhue did enough to be an average 12 today, Mo'unga was ordinary today, Ardie was ordinary, Tuipulotu was anonymous. And the majority of their subs don't look much better - they generally turn in average at best performances. Reiko's performances starting or off the bench are error ridden. Taylor is likely as good as Coles. Add in TJs performance last week and it looks awful.

As our senior guys start hanging up their boots, what will the next generation look like? At the moment it looks like we need a major shift to younger players because unless things improve, we will end up with a glut of journeymen.

Enough ranting....

This post is well worth rereading.

In my defence, I was much more optimistic in those days and thought Fozzie and his coaching team could do enough to get results if a few of the players stood up.

In hindsight I still think my point around Cane and Ardie stands - they are both trying to play a roaming loose forward role, Cane predominantly on defence and Ardie predominantly on turnovers/attack but they don't work well with any of the 6's as a loose unit. And of the two, I'd drop Cane - his workrate is phenomenal but he "just" tackles players versus either attacking the ball or providing a good platform for another player to attack the ball in the tackle. And Fozzie (and probably our options at 8 and 6) have no idea how to get Cane/Ardie/another working well other than playing SB as an extra lock and shoring up the tight 5 because they will be doing a lot of work on defence without the pressure at tackle time. But Fosters one defining decision when he started was making Cane captain so he can't change that now, particularly given the options (Whitelock...)

Basically, Fozzie still doesn't know how he wants the team to play other than to play some free flowing rugby and win or what he's looking for in the players (well he might, but they've all retired and the chances of finding the next McCaw, Carter, Kaino, Nonu, Conrad Smith, and younger versions of Aaron Smith, Sam Whitlock and BBBR in next years Super Rugby are pretty low) he has and the result is under performance.

Or maybe this post should just be buried again until post-RWC.

@Machpants said in Argentina v Australia A:

J4L is in rapture, an actual friendly

I hate it when people steal my jokes

Puma are the only SANZAAR team that can come out of 2020 with their head held high, tweet storm not withstanding. Boks too scared to play, ABs awful 50% winning record and first loss to Puma, Ozzie won one game. Puma defence is pretty impressive, they just need to add some attacking verve to it. Very much England of the south, without May.

Well Ledesma will be ruing a few things right now, no doubt. They're going home because he made some less than sensible selections IMHO.

The coaching team for the USA are either shit at rugby or shit at man management - their gameplan should be simple: pound the fuck out of opposition 5m either side of the breakdown, and learn to maul. As long as the backs can tackle, you'll be competitive.

They've got some big units who can move at pace but from 10 out the ball skills are practically zero at this level. That won't come until the next decade has seen their domestic competitions grow, and kids starting to play from junior high upward.

And they need external influence in some of those coaching ranks, because just playing against each other will just create the same problem Australian rugby has: biggest kid wins.

@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):

@westcoastie said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):

@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: England v Argentina (Pool C):

On the send off . sin bin rule, I follow AFL which has none, and the players get harshly dealt with at a tribunal ,

like anything , there are positives and negatives,

you dont get games decided by the send off which is probably better from a spectacle point of view,

but you could argue the team on the receiving end of the foul play doesnt receive enough compensation , particularly if they have lost a player through that foul play , the team that plays them next it could be argued benefits , because of the suspension,

And it does open a window for a player in a big game to go a bit nuts knowing he wont be sent off

you could change it but i dont think it fixes everything

What about, automatic 7pt try, red player gets replaced, and sent to tribunal for a heavy suspension

I personally would like this given a trial, a 10 minute sin bin , except that player is gone for good, when the 10 is up he is replaced by someone from the bench.

It’s a bit of a compromise, games won’t be so harshly ruined so to speak, and that player cops a harsh punishment personally.

I like what was suggested above too, and add an automatic penalty try 7 points

England aren't going to have any trouble with Argentina by the looks

Extended highlights video:

Utter farce that cheeky got world coach that year, the RWC pool match tactics were genius by the abs

@kiwipie said in Pumas vs All Blacks:

@bones said in Pumas vs All Blacks:

Sure it's fair, if you're going to apply the same thought process to the other team also. I definitely don't see the ABs as having a habit of this.

It is a desperation to defend their line against teams that are already too far behind to kick penalties. Teams who don't concede a try have to wait for a mistake or it ends in a yellow card. Suspect the ABs have done the maths and would rather concede a yellow than a try.

As Boks against Oz.

@billy-tell said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:

@siam said in All Blacks v Argentina - Nelson:

Anyone found a kosher replay vid of this game ?

Sometimes YouTube provides

I have a halal version if that is ok?

Halal no?!

I thought the kick was fine.. poor communication on the receivers to go up and compete..

Ignoring the two flat track bully matches, the best performances are the grind in Dublin and the first Lions Test

The other 7 games are a drop off from where we have been

Lucky we played historically weak Australian and French sides in this run

@gollum said in Pumas v All Blacks:

@antipodean said in Pumas v All Blacks:

Cruden's had that much time? TBH I've normally pretty well on my way by that stage of the game this year - not really paying attention once we've secured a bonus point before the subs come on.

Not just Cruden, whoever comes off requiring us to slot in a midfielder its tended to be Ben moving there. On one occasion at least our Midfield has been Smith at 12 & Naholo at 13 for 15 minutes.

It hasn't happened that often this year though. 3 of the 8 tests Bender has been in he has been the cover for midfield. In only 2 of those that I recall he has actually moved to the midfield.

We've used Tamanivalu and ALB as the bench cover for the most part.

You kind of feel bad for the oppo this season , how can they stop the ABs. I reckon that our hooker , second row and back row showed more skills than the Bok midfield, and perhaps their whole back line combined.

I have to take my hat of to Hansen for picking Savea and Dagg, I was not that happy with either selection originally but no doubt the AB environment has gotten Savea back to form , and the couple of games Dagg got at full back lifted his confidence to hold his place on the wing and allow Ben Smith to showcase his skills in his best position which is full- back. The result is the opposition don't know what to do, kick to our back three, which often includes Barrett or take the chance against our dominant lineout.

Really happy to see TJ finally providing impact off the bench, was purely mental thing in my opinion, just needed to calm down when he came on the field. Also think we missed Cane's physicality. By far best 7 in NZ, not that Artie is bad but does not get close to that physicality.