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@jegga yes Mayans in Central America have traditionally prayed for chocolate:
Ixcanil, Goddess of Seed, hear me.
Ixtoq, Goddess of Rain, help me.
Ixcacao, Goddess of Chocolate, see my tears and come to my aid. -
@Kirwan said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@No-Quarter said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@akan004 said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@Kirwan said in Wallabies v Springboks:
Looks like a couple of atheists standing out back waiting for the nonsense to finish
No offence but you sound like an arrogant .....
You've been absent for some cracking threads on religion in Off Topic!
Come and join the fun next time, it'd be great to have at least one person defend it...
Apparently it's arrogant to not believe in the Easter Bunny.
I honestly don't care what you beliefs are. I'm an agnostic myself. It's just your condescending tone that I have an issue with.
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Ohhhh one of those fence sitters aye. Comon @akan004 make up your mind... is the Easter Bunny real or not??
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@akan004 Agnostic or not, it's this exact reason why religon pretty much so fucks up the entire world.
Calling it nonsense, is no more arrogant than doing a prayer in the middle of the rugby field.
Religon or no religon, people should just get the fuck along, and not look to take offense/be offended at anybody who doesn't believe what they believe.
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@No-Quarter said in Wallabies v Springboks:
Ohhhh one of those fence sitters aye. Comon @akan004 make up your mind... is the Easter Bunny real or not??
I haven't met one atheist who can categorically say that there's no God- ultimately we cannot know for sure. Even Dawkins agrees with this. But the level of arrogance among most atheists is undeniable..
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@MajorRage said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@akan004 Agnostic or not, it's this exact reason why religon pretty much so fucks up the entire world.
Calling it nonsense, is no more arrogant than doing a prayer in the middle of the rugby field.
Religon or no religon, people should just get the fuck along, and not look to take offense/be offended at anybody who doesn't believe what they believe.
So by your reckoning, homophobic views and racist ideologies should not upset anyone? They should just get the fuck along? Not seeing the double standards my friend?
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@akan004 Whoa whoa whoa ... I'm not going to get into a debate about the finer details of religon, it's boring and it never goes anywhere.
And you've completely missed my point. In fact, I think we are actually on the same wavelength.
Surely you can see the hypocrisy of calling an athiest arrogant given what he was criticising?
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@akan004 said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@MajorRage said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@akan004 Agnostic or not, it's this exact reason why religon pretty much so fucks up the entire world.
Calling it nonsense, is no more arrogant than doing a prayer in the middle of the rugby field.
Religon or no religon, people should just get the fuck along, and not look to take offense/be offended at anybody who doesn't believe what they believe.
So by your reckoning, homophobic views and racist ideologies should not upset anyone? They should just get the fuck along? Not seeing the double standards my friend?
Homosexuality - human trait
Race - human trait
Religion - just an idea, open to criticismVery simple concept to grasp, I don't know why so many people have so much trouble with it.
So no, no double standards.
And it's not up to atheists to "dis-prove" a god. Or to use Dawkins example: "there are leprechauns living at the bottom of my garden, you have to prove they don't exist. Which of course you can't". See how ridliculous that is?
I sense another religion thread coming in Off Topic! Woohoo!
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@No-Quarter said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@akan004 said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@MajorRage said in Wallabies v Springboks:
@akan004 Agnostic or not, it's this exact reason why religon pretty much so fucks up the entire world.
Calling it nonsense, is no more arrogant than doing a prayer in the middle of the rugby field.
Religon or no religon, people should just get the fuck along, and not look to take offense/be offended at anybody who doesn't believe what they believe.
So by your reckoning, homophobic views and racist ideologies should not upset anyone? They should just get the fuck along? Not seeing the double standards my friend?
Homosexuality - human trait
Race - human trait
Religion - just an idea, open to criticismVery simple concept to grasp, I don't know why so many people have so much trouble with it.
So no, no double standards.
And it's not up to atheists to "dis-prove" a god. Or to use Dawkins example: "there are leprechauns living at the bottom of my garden, you have to prove they don't exist. Which of course you can't". See how ridliculous that is?
I sense another religion thread coming in Off Topic! Woohoo!
Yeah, but unlike your leprechauns analogy, , 90% of the world's population are theists. So you can't just dismiss their views because it doesn't fit into your worldview. If the players choose to say a prayer after a game and are not imposing their beliefs on anyone else, why get upset about it?
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You say that as if 90% of the worlds population all believe the same thing. The fact that so many different religions exist should set off the bullshit-alarm in your brain.
There is a direct correllation between religious people and education. When you consider that only 7% of the worlds population holds a college or University degree, then it's not surprising that religion still has such a strong hold. Also, modern science is still a new concept, and again requires an education to understand. As time moves on religion will undoubtedly diminish in importance as more and more people see it for the complete nonsense that it is.
Nobody got particularly upset either. I found it quite comical - they all look rather silly gathering in a circle and talking to an imaginary sky fairy.
I'll make the same point again. Don't make the mistake of lumping religion (idea) in with human traits (sexuality, race, gender etc). If somebody criticises an idea that doesn't make them arrogant, and it doesn't mean they are discriminating against anyone.
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Sorry for the thread diversion, I did start it afterall. I know the likes of Stargazer will not be impressed. @akan004 if you want to continue the debate we can always start a thread in Off Topic
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@No-Quarter A lot of things in our day to day lives are open to interpretation. I have no problems with swearing for example- I honestly see nothing wrong with it. But I choose not to swear when in the company of certain mates and family members as I know they are strongly against it, and I do it out of respect for them. I just think the same consistency should be applied to people's religious beliefs as well. As long as they don't impose it on you, just let it go. If a player finds solace and peace in his faith, and makes him a better player for it, then who are we to mock him for his beliefs.
Edit: Sorry, just saw your last post. That's it from me on this topic as well. Time to move on to rugby again.
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@No-Quarter said in Wallabies v Springboks:
Sorry for the thread diversion, I did start it afterall. I know the likes of Stargazer will not be impressed. @akan004 if you want to continue the debate we can always start a thread in Off Topic
I'll solve that for you by making just one comment on this matter of my own:
I don't understand the need of atheists to make negative comments about a group of players, who just - as an expression of their religious beliefs - say thanks after a game. It's not like anyone is forced to participate. I don't share the religious views of these players, but I can fully respect that they have those views and express them this way.
Just like praying before or after a game is an expression of one's religion, the haka before the game is an expression of one's culture. Both are perfectly fine, although I don't easily see an All Black or other NZ rep being able to back out of doing the haka (so less freedom there).
I can't stand people who try to force their (religious) views on me, but that applies both to people with a religious view and atheists. I also can't stand people who don't respect the freedom of (other) people to have religious or atheist views and to express/practice these views.
But indeed, to remain OCD slash nerdy about posting in the right thread, express those views in a thread in "off-topic".
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If a religious person wants to try and push their views on me then I'm more then happy to have a debate with them about why I would never believe something that has absolutely no evidence supporting it. Freedom of speech is hugely important to me, I don't want to stop religious people expressing what they believe in - quite the opposite - I want them to have that debate instead of shutting down any conversation with "I'm allowed to believe what I want so go away".
If someone wants to believe they have leprechauns living at the bottom of their garden they are free to do so. But they shouldn't be surprised when people say "That sounds like nonsense, have you got any evidence to support that claim?". That's not someone "forcing their views" on another person, that's someone logically questioning whether what someone believes has any basis in truth.
Shutting downs people's right to question ideas is a massive step backwards, and contradicts everything modern Science is based on.
I like to ask questions. If that makes me one of those people you "can't stand", then so be it.
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I did try to leave the discussion but Stargazer left a nice piece of bait...
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@nostrildamus said in Religious type discussion:
@jegga yes Mayans in Central America have traditionally prayed for chocolate:
Ixcanil, Goddess of Seed, hear me.
Ixtoq, Goddess of Rain, help me.
Ixcacao, Goddess of Chocolate, see my tears and come to my aid.Sweet, is there a prayer to summon Nigella* and a pile of Whittaker's?
*in the original ad , she looked way milfier in those ones and a bit scary in the recent one.
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Ok, it's gone off topic and I'm bored at work, so I'm going to expand on why I disagreed with your view that Kirwan was being arrogant or whatever.
In my opinion, there it little more things arrogant than religion itself. The fact that you can't wear what you want in certain countries, but then when people from these countries think they are entitled to wear their full coverings for everyday life in other parts of the world. Including local governments, court systems, schools etc. If that's not arrogance, then what is?
And to address the point of Saturdays prayer. Well, hang on a second, those players decided to get together in the middle of the field and show the world their religion. They know they are role models, they know that kids mimic them, they know that when they get down and do that, plenty of children will be going - "why are they doing that", "can we do that", "if I do that will I be a sports star", which is effectively shoving it down their throat. That's rather arrogant isn't it?
Athiests, on the whole, are certainly in no way more arrogant than religious types with their views. In fact, the tolerance they must have, as religion is everywhere in society, is higher than most.
Religious type discussion
