Aussie Rugby


  • Banned

    @No-Quarter said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @gt12 said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Victor-Meldrew

    The story I heard relates to sponsors removing their dollars unless he’s fired, which they interpret as bringing the game into disrepute. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had friends fired for less.

    Hilarious. Qantas, the moral arbitour that they are, threaten to pull money from RA which would negatively impact thousands of people just so they can look good, while at the same time cutting deals with state-owned Qatar Airways. If you don't know why that is the height of hypocrisy, look up how the Qatar government treats gay people.

    But I guess gay lives outside of the west don't mean a damn thing to the morally superior morons flooding media and social media with their cries of outrage at Folau's comments. I mean if they did, there would be outrage at Qantas rights? Boycotts? Protests? The all important hashtags? Or did I miss all of that?

    They're also partners with Royal Brunei, airline of a country where they just ramped up Sharia Law with a particular emphasis on gays. Response from Qantas? Crickets.

    Obviously that grave concern about inclusion doesn't mean shit when the bottom line is threatened. What a complete joke.



  • @Machpants making a tilt for the broken record award?



  • @Catogrande

    Really? Source?

    Rotherham Council tried to silence Jayne Senior - the whistle-blower in the Rotherham Child Sex scandal - by threatening legal action for breaching confidentiality clauses in her contract. Chapter 17 in her book Broken & Betrayed. They only backed down when Rupert Murdoch threatened widespread coverage of the legal proceedings

    And the social worker who exposed a similar scandal and cover-up in Rochdale was sacked.

    But a bit off topic...



  • @Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%

    Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)

    Vilifying? He's said they'll go to hell.



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Catogrande

    Really? Source?

    Rotherham Council tried to silence Jayne Senior - the whistle-blower in the Rotherham Child Sex scandal - by threatening legal action for breaching confidentiality clauses in her contract. Chapter 17 in her book Broken & Betrayed. They only backed down when Rupert Murdoch threatened widespread coverage of the legal proceedings

    And the social worker who exposed a similar scandal and cover-up in Rochdale was sacked.

    But a bit off topic...

    Ok thanks feller. Appreciated.



  • @sparky said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Kirwan Not comfortable with restricting free speech at all, even stupid drivel like this

    I am grateful to live in a free society with religious freedoms, press freedoms and very little censorship. But there are obligations on employees to uphold the values of the organisations they work for and abide by their contractual arrangements.

    Folau posted from social media accounts that identify him as a Wallaby and an Rugby Australia employee. Their content and tone go against the code of conduct that he signed. No one is taking away his democratic rights to have his own opinions and to practise his religion as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, but as an employee there are consequences to communications that are totally at odds with the values and aims of his employers who remunerate him very well indeed.

    I'm afraid I don't really buy this employers' values rhetoric. All the rugby fans I know watch drunks, gays and adulterers who play pro rugby without any prejudice or qualms. THAT is what matters. This employers' value drivel is really about sponsors, who are nowadays trying to cultivate a 'right on' image and will twist arms if a sponsoree might queer that pitch. Do sponsors enhance the fans' experience? I must say I have my doubts. They DO encourage there being TOO MUCH rugby, and their money does lead to increased players' remuneration, but at the cost of their long term welfare.

    I'm not confident the game will be in good shape in ten years' time the way things are going.

    Somehow smacks of meeting religious doctrine with secular doctrine.

    YAWN.



  • @Bones said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%

    Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)

    Vilifying? He's said they'll go to hell.

    And he’s saying pretty much everyone is going to hell, not just gays. Pretty weak on the hate speech scale IMO.

    If you don’t join my club all youse guys are going to a place we made up when you die.



  • @Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @booboo Nope sorry - hate speech. Vilifying someone for what they are (black, blond, left handed, gay, short) rather than what they chose to do (lie, steal, drink). Second bit is being a twat, first bit is hate speech. He has said in his sermons and tweets etc, people need to follow the bible. He thinks it's RIGHT and GOOD that gay people are condemned unless they repent their sins. Fuck off Folau, they can't repent how they were born anymore than you can repent your skin colour, or I can repent my webbed toes. Hate speech 100%

    Also against the RA Inclusion policy he signed up to - hate speech and sticking his finger up at his employer, and sponsors (and thus who pays for his inflated wage)

    From google
    abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.

    Not sure he's abusing, at a push there may be an implied threat, but is it? or is it more a warning? And as pointed out above if he is indeed Christian he may think it is "RIGHT" that homosexuals go to Hell, he sure as Hell (pun intended) shouldn't think it is "GOOD". I think that is your projection and interpretation, which seems to be mirrored by all the usual woke celebrities'.

    Based on what he purports to be his beliefs (which I don't share) we'll agree to disagree on that point.

    Your second paragraph I agree 100%, with the caveat about the definitiion and intent of "hate speech".



  • Not sure if this has been brought up (didn't scroll back) but why is everyone getting so worked up?

    Folau, who believes in an imaginary diety, has said homosexuals (real, in real life) and others will go to 'Hell' (imaginary destination).

    That's like me saying vegans (real, in real life) will spend eternity in 'Mordor' or 'Narnia' (both imaginary) for not devouring the flesh.

    It's about time Christianity and all other religions get relegated to the position they deserve

    An infantalised, indoctrinated, imaginary view which has no bearing in the modern world.

    And yes I know, I'm going to HELL [INSERT YOUR OWN SHITHOLE HERE]



  • @MiketheSnow said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Not sure if this has been brought up (didn't scroll back) but why is everyone getting so worked up?

    Folau, who believes in an imaginary diety, has said homosexuals (real, in real life) and others will go to 'Hell' (imaginary destination).

    That's like me saying vegans (real, in real life) will spend eternity in 'Mordor' or 'Narnia' (both imaginary) for not devouring the flesh.

    It's about time Christianity and all other religions get relegated to the position they deserve

    An infantalised, indoctrinated, imaginary view which has no bearing in the modern world.

    And yes I know, I'm going to HELL [SwanseaINSERT YOUR OWN SHITHOLE HERE]



  • @MiketheSnow bingo. I mean surely the only ones who should be offended are the gays that believe in the exact same hell as Folau? Even then, he didn't actually say it's what he thinks did he? To him it's what happens.



  • @Bones said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @MiketheSnow bingo. I mean surely the only ones who should be offended are the gays that believe in the exact same hell as Folau? Even then, he didn't actually say it's what he thinks did he? To him it's what happens.

    It was a great opportunity for lots of consequence free moral posturing that people and businesses just couldn't pass up, as there's no such word as "Christianityophobia".



  • @Catogrande said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @MiketheSnow said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Not sure if this has been brought up (didn't scroll back) but why is everyone getting so worked up?

    Folau, who believes in an imaginary diety, has said homosexuals (real, in real life) and others will go to 'Hell' (imaginary destination).

    That's like me saying vegans (real, in real life) will spend eternity in 'Mordor' or 'Narnia' (both imaginary) for not devouring the flesh.

    It's about time Christianity and all other religions get relegated to the position they deserve

    An infantalised, indoctrinated, imaginary view which has no bearing in the modern world.

    And yes I know, I'm going to HELL [SwanseaINSERT YOUR OWN SHITHOLE HERE]

    Shots fired.



  • @No-Quarter said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Bones said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @MiketheSnow bingo. I mean surely the only ones who should be offended are the gays that believe in the exact same hell as Folau? Even then, he didn't actually say it's what he thinks did he? To him it's what happens.

    It was a great opportunity for lots of consequence free moral posturing that people and businesses just couldn't pass up, as there's no such word as "Christianityophobia".

    Great opportunity to cement my opinion of which celebrities are a sanctimonious fluffybunny in this country too.

    Alot of pi people in NZ are quite religious , I wonder how they feel about the saturation mocking of their beliefs in the media?



  • @jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Catogrande said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @MiketheSnow said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Not sure if this has been brought up (didn't scroll back) but why is everyone getting so worked up?

    Folau, who believes in an imaginary diety, has said homosexuals (real, in real life) and others will go to 'Hell' (imaginary destination).

    That's like me saying vegans (real, in real life) will spend eternity in 'Mordor' or 'Narnia' (both imaginary) for not devouring the flesh.

    It's about time Christianity and all other religions get relegated to the position they deserve

    An infantalised, indoctrinated, imaginary view which has no bearing in the modern world.

    And yes I know, I'm going to HELL [SwanseaINSERT YOUR OWN SHITHOLE HERE]

    Shots fired.

    Target acquired, locked on, unfortunately not destroyed.



  • Kafer saying today we're better off without him.

    Interesting from the guy who is one of our High Performance Coaching Level Coordination Supervisory Hangers-On.



  • @NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Kafer saying today we're better off without him.

    Interesting from the guy who is one of our High Performance Coaching Level Coordination Supervisory Hangers-On.

    That’s comical Ali levels of delusion. Great to see though .



  • @NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Kafer saying today we're better off without him.

    Interesting from the guy who is one of our High Performance Coaching Level Coordination Supervisory Hangers-On.

    Part of the plan to push him out?



  • @booboo mate who fucking knows anymore?



  • FWIW, most people I speak to here in Sydney are happy to see the back of him, and think RA has done the right thing.

    The usual blowhards are defending Folau, but I don't think the public are behind them.

    Certainly would be interesting to see the crowd reaction if Izzy returns to the field.





  • Have they made a decision yet? Has he actually been fired?



  • have split posts from the last day or so, lets keep this one focused on the actual rugby aspect and use the other one to discuss the peripheral religious, freedom of speech etc side of it.

    Appreciate there is inevitable crossover, but try to keep this thread to the actual sport side of things.

    https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3057/the-folau-factor



  • @Darren said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Have they made a decision yet? Has he actually been fired?

    Effectively, yes. When RA, Waratahs and the respective coaches and captain say you won't be picked.


  • Banned

    So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

    He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.



  • @antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Darren said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Have they made a decision yet? Has he actually been fired?

    Effectively, yes. When RA, Waratahs and the respective coaches and captain say you won't be picked.

    But is he still getting paid? Is he effectively on Gardening Leave?



  • @Hooroo said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Darren said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    Have they made a decision yet? Has he actually been fired?

    Effectively, yes. When RA, Waratahs and the respective coaches and captain say you won't be picked.

    But is he still getting paid? Is he effectively on Gardening Leave?

    I was wondering that. Quade was effectively a very expensive club player for a while wasn't he? I assume RA will want to cancel the contract altogether, even if it means a small payout.



  • I wonder what his future could be. Would the NRL take him on? I'm guessing probably not. Could this be the end of his sporting career at least in Australia?



  • @Rembrandt said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    I wonder what his future could be. Would the NRL take him on? I'm guessing probably not. Could this be the end of his sporting career at least in Australia?

    NRL have subtlety said no, I think I read the other day



  • @Hooroo yeah NRL have said no thanks...in theory, but I guess if some club went to them asking for him, write in some rules around his conduct, am sure they'd let him in?

    Comic book man from France thinks Folau is a fool, but he is such a tool he'd probably still offer him a contract then cry in shock and surprise when Folau tweeted something else dumb.



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

    He injured his ankle in one of our pool games, and was well below his best the entire tournament.

    But yes, we will miss him a lot.


  • Banned

    @mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

    He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.

    Yeah I guess they're probably in a shittier position now than they were in 2015.



  • I think Folau's role would be on the wing, anyway. We'll just have to make do. Fullback candidates top 5 are:

    Hodge
    Banks
    DHP
    Beale
    Hegarty

    All capable.



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

    He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.

    Yeah I guess they're probably in a shittier position now than they were in 2015.

    Yeah, so are we though!



  • This is from yesterday:

    Rugby AU issues Folau with Code of Conduct breach notice

    Israel Folau will have to face a code of conduct hearing if he wants to save his Australian rugby career after being issued a breach notice "warranting termination of his employment contract" by Rugby Australia.
    
    Rugby AU CEO Raelene Castle revealed that there was no specific clause within Folau's contract regarding his social media use but the fullback had been party to written agreements that he would refrain from posting in a disrespectful way after a similar incident almost a year ago.
    
    "The standard contract here in Australia for all Rugby Australia players is to sit within a standard contract that's agreed with the Players' Association and negotiated as part of the collective bargaining agreement," she said.
    
    Asked specifically whether a social media clause was included, Castle said there were other agreements in place.
    
    "(There was no clause) within the contract but there was a number of documented meetings that were put in writing, both verbally and in writing, to Israel about our expectations," she said.
    
    "Yes, he agreed to them."
    
    Rugby Australia issued the notice on Monday afternoon and Folau has 48 hours to either accept the breach or request a hearing at a later date. 
    
    Should it go to a hearing, Folau's case would be heard by an independent three-person panel, following a similar process to that of Kurtley Beale in 2014.
    
    Castle said at the time of negotiating Folau's contract, she was confident the 30-year-old understood the standards that needed to be met when it came to social media.
    
    "I think we both entered into an open conversation around the contract negotiations," she said.
    
    "You start with a point of trust and hopes you can move on from there - that was certainly the very pragmatic and straight forward conversation we had in re-signing him.
    
    "We had an agreement of where the line in the sand was.
    
    "Andrew (Hore) sat down and had a meeting with him, I sat down and had a meeting with him, (Wallabies coach Michael) Cheika sat down, had a meeting with him and explained the implications of this type of posting and that the grief that it causes, the disrespect that it causes and harm that it causes for our rugby community.
    
    "I believe that was a commitment we had but that's clearly not Israel's view." 
    
    There has not been a specific charge made public but Castle said the high level breach was a result of a number of issues under the code of conduct.
    
    A number of Wallabies players liked the post on Instagram and many of his Waratahs teammates are also followers of the Christian faith, something Castle and her NSW counterpart Andrew Hore were quick to dismiss religion as the key element in the decision.
    
    "This is not a religious discussion, this is a discussion around the employee, employer relationship and the values in the contractual arrangements within that agreement," she said.
    
    "That's on the basis on which we have served him a breach notice."
    


  • So the intention of this notice is to terminate his employment contract. If successful, that means they won't have to pay Folau anymore.



  • But he talked to the Players Union and then gave his intention to fight it. So yeah he may well win the legal battle and keep his job, but like quad he won't be playing for Oz.


  • Banned

    @Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:

    So what are the Wallabies chances without him? My memory is hazy, but did he make much of a difference at the last RWC?

    He's far and away their best attacking player and points outlet. He's been the difference in a number of tests. This is a huge loss.

    Yeah I guess they're probably in a shittier position now than they were in 2015.

    Yeah, so are we though!

    Yes but this isn't about us it's about them. Don't be so self-centred 🙂

    Tbh I think Aus are the least of our worries.



  • Aussie Rugby in general:

    Asked specifically whether a social media clause was included, Castle said there were other agreements in place.

    "(There was no clause) within the contract but there was a number of documented meetings that were put in writing, both verbally and in writing, to Israel about our expectations," she said.

    "Yes, he agreed to them."

    I'm not sure Raelene understands contracts.


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